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sandahlpipe wrote:If there is anything wrong with the engineering of a pipe, I have a hard time considering it a high grade. I don't care what other people think. It may be a nice piece of art, but it's not a pipe if it's not properly engineered, let alone a high grade.

Then again, there are many pipes that are properly engineered and still not high grades. I consider mine to fit this category. It's a necessary condition for a high grade, but not a sufficient one.

I agree. I suppose my point is that I wouldn't define a high grade by its engineering. Reason being: if someone is capable of even producing a high grade, their engineering should've been perfected a long time ago.

d.huber wrote:

sandahlpipe wrote:If there is anything wrong with the engineering of a pipe, I have a hard time considering it a high grade. I don't care what other people think. It may be a nice piece of art, but it's not a pipe if it's not properly engineered, let alone a high grade.

Then again, there are many pipes that are properly engineered and still not high grades. I consider mine to fit this category. It's a necessary condition for a high grade, but not a sufficient one.

I agree. I suppose my point is that I wouldn't define a high grade by its engineering. Reason being: if someone is capable of even producing a high grade, their engineering should've been perfected a long time ago.

That's what I meant to say, David.

Proper engineering
Flowing lines pleasing to the eye
Stem fit and finish, with suitable airflow
Good usage of grain
flawless finish with depth, non bleeding

Sas is now two bolts of lightening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1.) High Consistency of engineering
2.) High Quality of shaping
3.) Excellent quality of finishing

To qualify for ultra-grade

4.) Exquisite marrying of grain with form
5.) A unique, well established, and distinctive style and "touch"

1. call it a high grade
2. price it high
3. tell people they can get high smoking it
4. put it up high on a pedestal for photos
5. stamp it with a high grade stamp

Now what I really think:

1. very good internals that will allow for a very good smoke right from the begining
2. very good finish that doesn't change too much after smoked and that is attractive
3. The best materials
4. very good design
5. Grain

The best definition from a few years ago was I think Rad's: If you are charging four hundred dollars a pipe and there's a line-up, you are making high-grade pipes.

I don't remember saying this.

Hope this helps.

Rad

Course you don't remember, it's from more than 5 minutes ago.

I thought it was you. Maybe it wasn't. But it's still pretty funny and pretty accurate, which is why I attributed it to you, Rod.

I know this helped.

Todd

What I think makes a high grade pipe is near perfection in execution, superior finish and materials. To me, the stem is an extremely important element when classifying a pipe as high grade.

PremalChheda wrote:1. call it a high grade
2. price it high
3. tell people they can get high smoking it
4. put it up high on a pedestal for photos
5. stamp it with a high grade stamp

You're obviously joking, but there is a grain of truth there.

In response to some other posts, I think including engineering in this list is a mistake. Solid engineering is a good target for factory pipes, but it should be a given for high-grades. By that I mean it should be so natural to us that we shouldn't ever consider it as a standard (or include it on a list as above). Someone asking me if the drilling is good should produce the same reaction as asking if the pipe is made of briar or pine. Why would you even ask??? OF COURSE the engineering is solid -- this is a high grade pipe!

The single greatest determinant here is execution, but style is also critical to that. You can make pipes that are well executed but that follow some obscene aesthetic (no, I'm not going to name names, but they are out there), and this falls short of "high grade". The single most telling point on a pipe is the stem. If your stem work sucks, the whole pipe does.

This is a bit like that supreme court definition of porn: "you know it when you see it." ...the "you" is probably too broad in this application, but you get the idea.

e Markle wrote:

PremalChheda wrote:1. call it a high grade
2. price it high
3. tell people they can get high smoking it
4. put it up high on a pedestal for photos
5. stamp it with a high grade stamp

You're obviously joking, but there is a grain of truth there.

In response to some other posts, I think including engineering in this list is a mistake. Solid engineering is a good target for factory pipes, but it should be a given for high-grades. By that I mean it should be so natural to us that we shouldn't ever consider it as a standard (or include it on a list as above). Someone asking me if the drilling is good should produce the same reaction as asking if the pipe is made of briar or pine. Why would you even ask??? OF COURSE the engineering is solid -- this is a high grade pipe!

The single greatest determinant here is execution, but style is also critical to that. You can make pipes that are well executed but that follow some obscene aesthetic (no, I'm not going to name names, but they are out there), and this falls short of "high grade". The single most telling point on a pipe is the stem. If your stem work sucks, the whole pipe does.

This is a bit like that supreme court definition of porn: "you know it when you see it." ...the "you" is probably too broad in this application, but you get the idea.

Well done, Ernie!

e Markle wrote:

PremalChheda wrote:1. call it a high grade
2. price it high
3. tell people they can get high smoking it
4. put it up high on a pedestal for photos
5. stamp it with a high grade stamp

You're obviously joking, but there is a grain of truth there.

In response to some other posts, I think including engineering in this list is a mistake. Solid engineering is a good target for factory pipes, but it should be a given for high-grades. By that I mean it should be so natural to us that we shouldn't ever consider it as a standard (or include it on a list as above). Someone asking me if the drilling is good should produce the same reaction as asking if the pipe is made of briar or pine. Why would you even ask??? OF COURSE the engineering is solid -- this is a high grade pipe!

The single greatest determinant here is execution, but style is also critical to that. You can make pipes that are well executed but that follow some obscene aesthetic (no, I'm not going to name names, but they are out there), and this falls short of "high grade". The single most telling point on a pipe is the stem. If your stem work sucks, the whole pipe does.

This is a bit like that supreme court definition of porn: "you know it when you see it." ...the "you" is probably too broad in this application, but you get the idea.

Sparkle has spoken and it was good.

The Fine Art collecting world has struggled with the same question for a long time.

In mercantile terms it boils down to, "What makes Sotheby's or Christie's accept one object, and turn down another?"

They answer that it's a gestalt thing... (a German word with no direct English equivalent):

A structure, configuration, or pattern of physical, biological, or psychological phenomena so integrated as to constitute a functional unit with properties not derivable by summation of its parts.

In other words, "by definition you can't define it, you can only know it when you see it." Which is what Ernie-who-is-staying-warm-in-Phoenix-while-the-rest-of-the-country-freezes-Markle just said.

Although I've been given to understand that having "BAW" stamped on the shank is another safe way to tell.