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Some of y'all are kinda paranoid. Don't be scurred. briarworks doesn't wish to harm pipemakers... Because briarworks is pipemakers. And has lots of pipemaker homies.

sandahlpipe wrote:I think "Flush the pipe turds" needs to be the new PMF tag line.

"FTPT"!

mightysmurf8201 wrote:

sandahlpipe wrote:I think "Flush the pipe turds" needs to be the new PMF tag line.

"FTPT"!

Or at least an Instagram hashtag. #IamFTPT!!!!! I just decided I'm getting a giant tattoo of a toilet flushing a wagon-wheel "blowfish" on my forearm.

TJ

It will interesting to see how this project pans out, demand-wise, because the pipes fall into an entirely new category.

To date, what makes numbered-shape "factory" pipes interesting to collectors are the subtle differences between what are nominally the same pipe. Family Era pieces, Trans Era pieces, patent numbers, no patent numbers, pre-Lane ownership, post-Lane ownership, etc. The list of characteristics is practically endless. Entire books have been written about a single brand's variations-within-a-shape.

Removing those variations, while a remarkable technical achievement, would seem to diminish the "fun of the hunt" that powers the shape-number collecting side of the hobby.

On the other side, what makes individually-crafted pipes interesting to collectors is in large part the "owning a piece of the artist" sensation. The connection can be quite powerful. So much that some pipe makers have put streaming video cameras over their workbench, and had their sales increase sharply. Knowing that a pipe was 90% produced by CNC machine and then only finished by an anonymous human would remove that aspect entirely. Also, the people who collect bench-made, one-off pipes are willing to pay to get what they want. When the emotional chord is struck by a particular piece, a couple hundred dollars either way doesn't matter much.

There's no way to "focus group" something like this beforehand (at least these days), so all anyone can do is fire it up and see what happens. As I said, it'll make for interesting watching.

ToddJohnson wrote: the market seems to be littered with hastily wrought $400 pipe-turds of late.

Sadly, it seems to take a maker a while before they can train their eye to the point that they recognize a pipe-turd when they see it. I know I made my share of turds back in the day, and didn't even realize I was doing so.

ToddJohnson wrote:

mightysmurf8201 wrote:

sandahlpipe wrote:I think "Flush the pipe turds" needs to be the new PMF tag line.

"FTPT"!

Or at least an Instagram hashtag. #IamFTPT!!!!! I just decided I'm getting a giant tattoo of a toilet flushing a wagon-wheel "blowfish" on my forearm.

TJ

This might actually catch on... although given past trends which have taken off, this one might not be nearly stupid enough to succeed.

I'm curious as to what would constitute a "pipe-turd." An ugly pipe doesn't know it's ugly. If it's drilled proper, has a flush stem/shank junction, and open airway then the pipe should smoke well enough. Sure there are other factors that contribute to a pipe being better than another, but there are basic principles that will allow a pipe to smoke well. So, would a well smoking pipe be considered a "pipe-turd"? I think nearly all of us would rather have a properly drilled and poorly shaped pipe over a poorly drilled and properly shaped one.

I say all that simply for conversation sake. I'm still very new to the pipe-making game and have a LONG way to go before I'm producing anything like you fellas. I'm still selling my pipes to mostly just make back my cost and a little extra to buy new materials. Honestly, I don't know if I have the desire to put in the effort to produce pipes are nice as some of the ones I see you guys making. Then again, I've yet to make a pipe that I'm truly happy with and that spurs me on to try harder and pay closer attention the next time. My progress is slow coming, but it is fun to see it come along. Tuesdays are blue and I don't like to eat boiled squash...enough rambling.

JMG wrote:I'm curious as to what would constitute a "pipe-turd." An ugly pipe doesn't know it's ugly. If it's drilled proper, has a flush stem/shank junction, and open airway then the pipe should smoke well enough. Sure there are other factors that contribute to a pipe being better than another, but there are basic principles that will allow a pipe to smoke well. So, would a well smoking pipe be considered a "pipe-turd"? I think nearly all of us would rather have a properly drilled and poorly shaped pipe over a poorly drilled and properly shaped one.

I say all that simply for conversation sake. I'm still very new to the pipe-making game and have a LONG way to go before I'm producing anything like you fellas. I'm still selling my pipes to mostly just make back my cost and a little extra to buy new materials. Honestly, I don't know if I have the desire to put in the effort to produce pipes are nice as some of the ones I see you guys making. Then again, I've yet to make a pipe that I'm truly happy with and that spurs me on to try harder and pay closer attention the next time. My progress is slow coming, but it is fun to see it come along. Tuesdays are blue and I don't like to eat boiled squash...enough rambling.

Unfortunately, you're expressing precisely the WRONG attitude to land yourself in the pipe-turd crowd. You have an innate desire to improve your work, offer a fair price to people, and at the very least make a great smoking machine. You are the exact opposite of the pipe-turd crowd!

What Todd is getting at, is people who shall remain nameless who over-charge for poorly made pieces of garbage and have no interest whatsoever in making pipes truly worth what they're charging. Said people will use "It's handmade" as an excuse for all manner of aesthetic and internal flaws. In short, they're making pipes as a get rich quick scheme.

You on the other hand are making excellent progress with your work, and shouldn't be worried!

Scottie on the other hand....

Cheers!

Yeti

WCannoy wrote:

ToddJohnson wrote: the market seems to be littered with hastily wrought $400 pipe-turds of late.

Sadly, it seems to take a maker a while before they can train their eye to the point that they recognize a pipe-turd when they see it. I know I made my share of turds back in the day, and didn't even realize I was doing so.

No doubt about it, Walt. I've been extremely candid about some of the garbage I produced early on, but that was a very different time, as you can attest. In 1999, it was a different world, and just seeing pictures of pipes was sort of a cosmic feat. I remember how excited I always was to get the semi-monthly Uptown's catalog because it might have a few photos of a Bang, or maybe even a Jess or Bo. Now there are step-by-step photographic instructions on how to do anything under the sun. Guys know where the bar is, and mostly they know whether or not they're clearing it. The problem is that far too many of them just don't care. At this point, there really aren't too many excuses left. It's all laid out on a silver platter, complete with photos and at least a thousand examples. It also seems to be the common understanding that you should sell the first pipe you make and every pipe thereafter, no matter what they look like. Anyway, it needs to stop.

TJ

The Smoking Yeti wrote:

JMG wrote:I'm curious as to what would constitute a "pipe-turd." An ugly pipe doesn't know it's ugly. If it's drilled proper, has a flush stem/shank junction, and open airway then the pipe should smoke well enough. Sure there are other factors that contribute to a pipe being better than another, but there are basic principles that will allow a pipe to smoke well. So, would a well smoking pipe be considered a "pipe-turd"? I think nearly all of us would rather have a properly drilled and poorly shaped pipe over a poorly drilled and properly shaped one.

I say all that simply for conversation sake. I'm still very new to the pipe-making game and have a LONG way to go before I'm producing anything like you fellas. I'm still selling my pipes to mostly just make back my cost and a little extra to buy new materials. Honestly, I don't know if I have the desire to put in the effort to produce pipes are nice as some of the ones I see you guys making. Then again, I've yet to make a pipe that I'm truly happy with and that spurs me on to try harder and pay closer attention the next time. My progress is slow coming, but it is fun to see it come along. Tuesdays are blue and I don't like to eat boiled squash...enough rambling.

Unfortunately, you're expressing precisely the WRONG attitude to land yourself in the pipe-turd crowd. You have an innate desire to improve your work, offer a fair price to people, and at the very least make a great smoking machine. You are the exact opposite of the pipe-turd crowd!

What Todd is getting at, is people who shall remain nameless who over-charge for poorly made pieces of garbage and have no interest whatsoever in making pipes truly worth what they're charging. Said people will use "It's handmade" as an excuse for all manner of aesthetic and internal flaws. In short, they're making pipes as a get rich quick scheme.

You on the other hand are making excellent progress with your work, and shouldn't be worried!

Scottie on the other hand....

Cheers!

Yeti

Damn it....you're on to me!! Oh, well. On to the next scheme.

Micah is right. I still hate every pipe I make and there are a lot of pipes that never leave my shop. I have made my share of turds, sure. But I didn't make a lot and thanks to this place they were very early on. Most of us here are chasing perfection and trying to improve with every pipe we make. Amazingly most of the pipe turd people don't last long here......wonder why?

scotties22 wrote:Amazingly most of the pipe turd people don't last long here......wonder why?

We flush pipe turds. (WFPT) That's why.

ToddJohnson wrote:

WCannoy wrote:

ToddJohnson wrote: the market seems to be littered with hastily wrought $400 pipe-turds of late.

Sadly, it seems to take a maker a while before they can train their eye to the point that they recognize a pipe-turd when they see it. I know I made my share of turds back in the day, and didn't even realize I was doing so.

No doubt about it, Walt. I've been extremely candid about some of the garbage I produced early on, but that was a very different time, as you can attest. In 1999, it was a different world, and just seeing pictures of pipes was sort of a cosmic feat. I remember how excited I always was to get the semi-monthly Uptown's catalog because it might have a few photos of a Bang, or maybe even a Jess or Bo. Now there are step-by-step photographic instructions on how to do anything under the sun. Guys know where the bar is, and mostly they know whether or not they're clearing it. The problem is that far too many of them just don't care. At this point, there really aren't too many excuses left. It's all laid out on a silver platter, complete with photos and at least a thousand examples. It also seems to be the common understanding that you should sell the first pipe you make and every pipe thereafter, no matter what they look like. Anyway, it needs to stop.

TJ

I think most of them have very fragile egos. So when they get a customer who says, "OH MY GOD.....That is the most AMAZING pipe I have ever seen!!! How much?", these guys are like "I AM GOD OF THE PIPE WORLD......EVERYONE COME WORSHIP AT MY FEET!!!!". I all reality they made a really big steaming pile of shit and foisted it off on someone who doesn't know any better. Do they know better, do they care at all? Doesn't really matter. People are stroking their egos and they THINK they are the best thing since sliced bread. If we all actually sat down and had a conversation with most of these guys (non pipe related) we would find that they are all not even mediocre in their every day lives. Like they live in their mom's basement or some shit.

If we want to fix this particular problem we need to be educating pipe smokers. What's a good pipe, what's proper drilling, do these lines flow??? 90% of the hipster crowd (who the turds are sold to) probably never really think about any of that because the pipe they just bought is kitschy or cool and it's handmade. 5 years from now they are gonna be like "what the fuck did I buy and what was I thinking?".

I also think that some of these guys are actually at the upper limits of their abilities too. Not everyone is going to be capable of making a high grade pipe. The majority of us never will....like that 12 year old Yeti guy. And there's nothing wrong with that. UNTIL you start putting a high grade price tag on your never gonna be a high grade pipe.

sandahlpipe wrote:

scotties22 wrote:Amazingly most of the pipe turd people don't last long here......wonder why?

We flush pipe turds. (WFPT) That's why.

I think they think we are being mean to them because we give honest critiques and don't let their bullshit fly. Same thing as flushing the turds.

But not Scottie - she just goes around the bowl again and again...

Sasquatch wrote:But not Scottie - she just goes around the bowl again and again...

That's right. I'm the ultimate pipe turd...good luck trying to get rid of me assholes!!

Sasquatch wrote:But not Scottie - she just goes around the bowl again and again...

This is turning into the best thread of 2015...keep it going!

sandahlpipe wrote:

Sasquatch wrote:But not Scottie - she just goes around the bowl again and again...

This is turning into the best thread of 2015...keep it going!

Scottie,

I think you're really on-point with a lot of what you've said. The actual mechanics of it are something like this: In ten easy steps you just need to: 1. Get an Instagram account, and post incessantly. 2. Follow everyone and their mother in hopes of having them return the favor. 3. Respond to every comment with "Thanks bruh," and "right on," in order to increase the number of comments and therefore the scope of who gets drawn into your virtual web of mediocrity. 4. Talk about your beard. 5. Talk about your lengthy "commission" list and make your pipes seem rare and desirable. 6. Post photos of really awful pipes and let the "likes" roll in. 7. Use the number of "likes" as a litmus test for how great your pipes must be. 8. Price your pipes in accordance with how great they are. 9. Ignore the "haters" (i.e. people who actually know what they're talking about), for they are just "jealy" and trying to keep you down. They are the #establishment to your #indie label. 10. Become an Instagram superstar with 1000+ followers, sell your wooden novelties to beard-bro-bikers, damage the reputation of American high-grade pipes on the International market, and disappear inside of three years having never once made a decent pipe.

I know so many prominent collectors--super knowledgable, longtime pipe-guys--who have just stopped collecting pipes because of how formulaic and tiresome this has all become. I know pipe makers who just don't have an interest in being part of the community anymore. It's virtually impossible to do something original now without seeing five atrocious copies of it a week later. It's just not fun anymore. The guys whose openness and generosity made this internet pipe making trend possible are all turning inward and holding onto the real knowledge while another group of self-important "pipe gurus" vomit their own ridiculous pipe making methodology all over the internet.

You know who loses in this scenario? Every aspiring pipe maker who's actually striving for excellence. Every collector for whom this hobby has now lost its appeal. All the hipsters who are having pipe-turds pawned off on them for hundreds of dollars. All the #indie #artisans who are doing the very thing that is most contrary to being an independent artisan: sacrificing both personal integrity and integrity of craftsmanship to make a quick buck. And finally, established pipe makers who have given a good portion of their lives to this endeavor only to be disgusted by what it's become, short-lived though this trend will be.

You'll notice certain retailers have already drawn a line in the sand, choosing no longer to offer "tortured Ballerinas" or "Asymmetrical RC (is that "radio controlled?") Danish Dazzlefish" by guys who aren't willing to bring their level of craftsmanship up to the level of their egos. That's certainly a positive trend, and I hope to see retailers continue culling their offerings back to include only pipes whose craftsmanship and aesthetics they can recommend to the consumer in good conscience.

No doubt, we will never be able to flush all the pipe-turds, but for those of us who consider this something of great value, I think it is worth the time and effort to educate the consumer, and disassociate ourselves with overpriced mediocrity.

If you've been living a life purveying turds [cue sappy organ music here], it's not too late for you, friend. You can be delivered from that old life and washed clean. Just raise your hand. Come on down the aisle and let Brother Markle lay hands on you. Say it with me, brothers and sisters: "I don't wanna make $400 wagon-wheel blowfish anymore! I confess that my mouthpieces have been thick, lumpy, and poorly engineered! I have even, at times, used the word "Danish" when describing a pipe I couldn't get to be symmetrical. I confess I have no idea what makes oil "Danish," or when or how to use it, but I do it anyway and I've encouraged others to do it as well. I don't have the chops to make lines flow well, so instead I just use partial rustication to hide it, then appeal to some kitschy frontiersman aesthetic that plays well with the "boots 'n' beards" crowd. I even use Cocobolo on every last stubby poker or "Devil Anse" I make! Somebody please help me!"

For those of you who were not raised in the Church . . . in the South . . . just disregard the alter call above.

TJ

ToddJohnson wrote: For those of you who were not raised in the Church . . . in the South . . . just disregard the alter call above.

TJ

I just felt like I was back in high school at yet another revival I was drug to.

ToddJohnson wrote:For those of you who were not raised in the Church . . . in the South . . . just disregard the alter call above.

TJ

Preach it, brother Todd!

I had made between 50 and 75 pipes before i ever sold one to a pipe smoker, and that was at the urging of a few other pipemakers that had convinced me it was time to get them out there. I still feel like i sold a little too early and would like to have a few back. What really kills me about instagram are the guys that pop up out of nowhere. I just laugh out loud to myself sometimes. I came across a guy that had just launched his website, complete with t-shirts, beer cozies, coffee cups, women's purses, mudflaps, ect. Now digging back into the far past of his account, maybe four months ago i see the first pipe he made. FIRST PIPE. Then his 2nd, and third, and then a week later he is selling these lumps through his website along with all the other branded garbage. Simply amazing. I am also amazed at the guys that feel the need to post a picture of their drillings on a straight pipe bragging that is dead on. I should hope so, thats first day shit! It should be a given that your drilling is dead on, not a selling point.