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Sasquatch wrote:Wayne, I found you pretty easy to get to know. It's just that.... I don't like you.

Exactly my point!

Wayne, I think you'd need to be more concerned if Sas liked you.

Marketing oneself is a gift some have and some don't. I don't have it, either, and I dread the day I have to start. I'm hoping to do my first show next year, and the excitement of attending a pipe show, meeting a lot of you guys, and maybe selling some pipes to somebody other than my friends, is definitely overshadowed by the knowledge that I have to engage in some level of self-promotion.

Good thread.

TreverT wrote: . . . Say something cool.

Think this about says it all.

mredmond wrote:Wayne, I think you'd need to be more concerned if Sas liked you.

Marketing oneself is a gift some have and some don't. I don't have it, either, and I dread the day I have to start. I'm hoping to do my first show next year, and the excitement of attending a pipe show, meeting a lot of you guys, and maybe selling some pipes to somebody other than my friends, is definitely overshadowed by the knowledge that I have to engage in some level of self-promotion.

I know exactly what you mean. I'm a lawyer (hard to tell by my nick?) and as a lawyer one must "self promote" to be able to earn a living, a lot, lot tougher than most folks think.

How does one who, like you, like me, hates to self promote, get the job done? Well, there are lots and lots of books on the subject, but I think the main thing is NOT to talk about you but to talk about the person with whom you are engaging. If that is difficult, speak about/promote someone else.

"I have studied the work of Rad Davis and the way he does X is ..... and so I have tried to do the same, with a twist, see."

One can speak about others, but still engage a person in discussing yourself. But the real trick, according to the many experts, is to speak about/discuss the OTHER person. Do small things for the OTHER person. Follow up with the OTHER person.

Here is a website created by a friend. He wrote a book about another friend (though he says it's a "composite" it is 99% a friend of mine who is in commercial real estate). Though the subjects aren't about selling pipes, selling pipes is like selling anything else.

http://www.mrshmooze.com/

He has taken a sabbatical for a few months, but the short ideas he has left on the site are worth going through.

Anyway, just some ideas. There are a million such resources. It's always hard to sell yourself, unless you are an egomaniac. It's MUCH easier to sell someone else, and through them, sell yourself.

Sorry I carried on so but it is a fascinating subject which I have, over the years, studied, worked on, and for awhile, was quite successful at.

wdteipen wrote:
Very well put, Trever. I can completely relate to loathing social networking and marketing. I'm just not good at developing relationships with people because I need something from them. That's what makes me a terrible businessman. And I'm not in any way criticizing folks who have that knack. My father is a successful entrepreneur because he is amazing at developing personable relationships with his customers. I just didn't inherit that trait. In fact, I'm quite uncomfortable and awkward in most social situations most of the time. It may well be my downfall as a pipemaker. My saving grace is that there are some people in the pipe community that I really do like and am more comfortable developing relationships with. It's just going to take me much longer because I can be difficult to get to know. Unfortunately, my second strike is that I'm really not that interesting of a person to get to know relatively speaking.

What data do you have that tells you you are a terrible businessman? A drawer full of unsold pipes? No commissions? Not selling pipes at shows?

I think you are doing what you say you aren't good at. It's not about being the most popular kid in school. It's not about being a snake oil salesman. It's not about going out and "selling" yourself or your stuff. It's about being yourself, about being a good person, and about having pipe making talent. No problem. It's about making friends, not to use them because you need to sell a pipe, but because you enjoy them. Collectors are out looking for makers like you.

Just keep being you and keep making good pipes. It'll work. One of the funny thing is, the next show might have a vocal collector or two "discover" you, and you become an "overnight" success.

I really have nothing valid to contribute, but I just want to say that this is one of the best threads I've ever read on this forum. I love this group!

I feel like Wayne is the type of person who, at a show, would find any flaw in one of his pipes and point it out to the prospective buyer while at the same time offering A lower price and apology for the defect. He just seems like a very genuine person who likes to treat people fairly. That type of attitude is exactly the thing that will spread through word of mouth and gain you popularity and is the easiest way to self promote. Unfortunatly 95% of the people out there are NOT that type of person, and so have to spend large amounts of time and money to try to get the same level of exposure. So even though he may not be a social person, he still had traits that will make him excel as an pipe maker without being a "salesman".

fuchi_jeg wrote:I feel like Wayne is the type of person who, at a show, would find any flaw in one of his pipes and point it out to the prospective buyer while at the same time offering A lower price and apology for the defect. He just seems like a very genuine person who likes to treat people fairly. That type of attitude is exactly the thing that will spread through word of mouth and gain you popularity and is the easiest way to self promote. Unfortunatly 95% of the people out there are NOT that type of person, and so have to spend large amounts of time and money to try to get the same level of exposure. So even though he may not be a social person, he still had traits that will make him excel as an pipe maker without being a "salesman".

I don't think there is anything wrong in being a "salesman" if what you are selling is worth the price. Methinks that most of the successful, artisan pipe makers are, in fact, "salesman" as well.

But, I understand what you are trying to convey, which is just what Rad was trying to convey. "Selling" or being a "salesman", however, doesn't mean you have to lie, cheat, or steal. What it means (to me at least) is that you put EFFORT into your chosen profession/hobby.

If you ignore those who are interested in you, they will ignore you. If you show interest in those who may be interested in you, they will reciprocate. That is the essence of interpersonal relationships which are, after all, the centerpiece of our existence as we shuffle along on this mortal coil. A nice hand written "Great to Meet You" note sent to a collector that may have shown an interest may be the one thing that sets you apart from the other pipe crafters and "launch" you.

But, again, each to his own. I would just like to point out that "selling" is like anything else, including pipe carving. The more you work at it, the better and more successful at it you become. AND, I might add, the more rewarding it becomes.

Reading back over this thread I sound like a whiner. I didn't mean for this thread to be about me and it makes me pretty uncomfortable. I do, however, appreciate the kind words, advice, and constructive dialog.

wdteipen wrote:Reading back over this thread I sound like a whiner. I didn't mean for this thread to be about me and it makes me pretty uncomfortable. I do, however, appreciate the kind words, advice, and constructive dialog.

Sheesh Wayne, whats wrong with you! Why would you make comments that pertain to the topic and that have created a rather stimulating thread... You might as well just quit posting...