Aesthetics...100% subjective?

ArtGuy · Post by **ArtGuy** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:46 pm

That right there Obie is the difference between those artists who live up to their potential and those that plateau and never improve from there. I had my own ogre of an art instructor. He used to always say that there are indeed people who were born knowing everything there was to know about drawing. However, if you were to gather together all of those people who have ever lived over time they would all fit in this very room. The rest of us just have to work hard.

obie · Post by **obie** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:25 pm

Amazing how valuable it is to spend time with those ogres.

There comes a point where the prodigies start to look the same as those who've worked hard - everything balances out eventually. The prodigies get there faster, but they also tend to stay there longer.

sethile · Post by **sethile** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:18 am

I've been lurking on this thread. Fascinating discussion and I've learned a lot. Pipe smokers are amazing people, and especially those that gravitate toward wanting to make the blasted things

(sorry) . Man are you guys ever smart, well read, and very interesting! I will re-read this several more times as my skills come up to the level where I can worry more about the aesthetic. I’m still building basic skills--my mechanics have only just now started to come around, and I haven't actually ruined anything or hurt myself on the last couple of pipes. I think my internal aesthetics are good, it's getting what's in my mind, heart, and soul even close to being realized by what I do with my hands, and then showing up in the finished pipes.

obie wrote:Man, that reminds me how much I still need to learn to draw.

ME TOO! To that end I've been thinking about taking a drawing course here at the university where I work. My guess is that it would really help. I figure if I can't draw it, how can I possibly carve it? I know that we each find our own ways of realizing into media what's in our minds eye, but I can see a huge advantage to being able to sketch ideas out more accurately. It's just so hard to erase mistakes and bad ideas once they are reduced to briar and ebonite!

obie · Post by **obie** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:52 pm

sethile wrote:
obie wrote:Man, that reminds me how much I still need to learn to draw.

ME TOO! To that end I've been thinking about taking a drawing course here at the university where I work. My guess is that it would really help. I figure if I can't draw it, how can I possibly carve it? I know that we each find our own ways of realizing into media what's in our minds eye, but I can see a huge advantage to being able to sketch ideas out more accurately.

Learning to draw is the single most valuable skill I can imagine for any artisan - and the reason is that it involves learning to observe, and learning how to think hard about form and space. Most people are capable of seeing when something is not right with a piece... the value lies in being able to understand why, and figure out what to do to correct or improve it. And that's what comes from honed observation skills.

I've worked with designers who can draw and designers who can't, and the designers who can draw are always far better off.

ArtGuy · Post by **ArtGuy** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:27 pm

I don't mean to say that one must have drawing skills to carve a pipe. However there are certainly fundamental skills that one can develop and acquire through drawing. (Keep in mind I am indeed speaking from my own bias here)

The process of drawing is a series of decisions where you determine proportion, shape, unity and directional line as it concerns the overall look of a piece. This is the same if you are drawing a pipe, a flower arrangement, a person or a landscape etc. It even applies to doing non-representational art. Recording these choices onto paper in the form of mark-making is essentially what drawing is when you get right down to it.

There are other ways to develop those skills, however, drawing is what I think is most effective. Drawing and a working knowledge of fundamental design is what I attribute to my being able to make the pipes that I do (considering I am still new to pipemaking in general). Now I just have to keep working until my carving skill levels out with my drawing skill. :think:

alexanderfrese · Post by **alexanderfrese** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:36 pm

obie wrote:…snip
I've worked with designers who can draw and designers who can't, and the designers who can draw are always far better off.

Being (or ar least calling me) a designer, that has only very rudimentary drawing capabilities, I still must second this statement to some degree. A designer that can not draw will probably work less effective on his way to an aesthetic goal. Though he might still achieve it. Time being an important factor in design business will then make him the inferior designer. This must not be the same for an artisan not undergoing those rude graphic design business time panic.

And BTW ArtGuy, I love that story about not letting ’em get through with lame excuses. We all try to get through with those from time to time and we all should be grateful if there is someone around simply saying: »Don’t tell me any story, you know you can do better…«. I recently made some roughs for a website layout and mailed them to an uncle of mine who has been some sort of first inspiration in my starting days in that business some years ago. Man I was happy, he only rang me up to tell me how bad he thought it was. And it was. So I secretly burried it in the backyard…

bvartist · Post by **bvartist** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:46 pm

ArtGuy wrote: Now I just have to keep working until my carving skill levels out with my drawing skill. :think:

You're getting close!!! :thumb: Your sketches and the finished pipes are recognizeable as one in the same.

A good study guide for anyone wanting to further their drawing skills: "Keys to Drawing" by Bert Dodson. Has some very good info, and a lot of drawing lessons for practice. Much of his focus is learning to draw by relationships, angles, shapes, light and shadow. Rather than drawing our mental image of the object. IE. our mental image of an apple is round with a stem sticking out. But not all apples look like that! Of course drawing a pipe before drilling and shaping is from mental image, but good drawing skills will further the ability to take the shape from mental image to final product.

Everyone else has been listing their favorite study's so I thought I'd throw mine in!

David

RadDavis · Post by **RadDavis** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:20 pm

I have a terrible time drawing. My hand just won't do what my mind sees. I don't think taking a course would change that for me.

Drawing a shape on a block can sometimes take me up to an hour to get right. I know when it looks right, but it takes me a helluva long time to get there.

Then I make a template.

Rad

mahaffy · Post by **mahaffy** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:48 pm

Rad, check out "Drawing from the Right Side of Your Brain" (or was it Left? It's been so many years I can't remember. Doesn't matter, really). Anyway, it's a basically primer on how to see and execute what's in your head. Also, it's largely practice, like any other skill.

bvartist · Post by **bvartist** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:11 pm

mahaffy wrote:Rad, check out "Drawing from the Right Side of Your Brain" (or was it Left? It's been so many years I can't remember.

Right is right!

A good book to read for "outside the box" thinking, and to train yourself to work with the more creative right half of your brain. The exact title is "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" by Betty Edwards in case anyone wants to look into it. (I've got that one in my library too!)

David

flix · Post by **flix** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:51 pm

Thanks for the recommendation. Just bought a copy from amazon.

--Michael (AKA, drawing challenged Spokanite)

obie · Post by **obie** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:08 pm

Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain is awesome. Highly recommended.

Spokane, eh Flix? I'm in Seattle! We're Tobacco Ban co-sufferers!

flix · Post by **flix** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:04 am

Obie,

Yes, that's right. I was looking forward to moving to Wa. a couple of years ago before the ban. Then it hit, but it was too late, moved up here anyway 5 months ago and have been suffering since!

BTW, I'm anixi on CPS, see you there once in a while, also, bought one of your estate pipes for a friend around a year ago, back in the Republik of Kalifornia, from your online shop. He loves the pipe, btw,

--Michael

obie · Post by **obie** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:11 am

Nice! I love how integrated the pipe community is...

Yeah, I had 'pipe dreams' (sorry) of opening a pipe shop here in Seattle. They were unrealistic then cause real estate is ridiculously expensive and there's not a very large pipe smoking populace here. But now that the tobacco ban is in force, it's downright silly to even think about it.

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