What is the purpose of PMF?

[LittleBill]

On many or little occasion, I do feel that aspiring pipe makers whether on this forum, on the phone, or in person ask a question and expect an answer without trying to figure it out. Some of these pipe makers use the forum to ask questions to find the answer without practice, research, and experimentation.

....

I have become a better pipe maker due to instructing others. Thank you "newbies" Keep the questions coming, but also do your studying, research, and practice.

Excellent post! I did snip it for brevity, but you have identified all sorts of things in one post here. Forums change, and people are different. There is always a group longing for the good old days, and there are always those who post and then refresh the screen, angry if they don't already have an answer. I have yet to be on a forum that was not like this. And teaching does help one to improve his or her own skills.

[sethile]

Sorry about the ranting fellas. I cant sleep...

Rant? Not at all, Premal. That was a great post! You have articulated exactly what I was thinking as I was reading this very interesting thread.

I do think things have changed from the early days of the forum, but it's still the best virtual pipe making apprenticeship on the net. It's also the best place for someone wanting just a little help with making a few pipes for their own enjoyment.

Anyone wanting the most out of this forum should respect the time of the more experienced pipe makers participating by doing your research before you post questions. So much great information can be found through searching or just reading through older posts. Then ask for clarification if you need it. Doing this will keep more experienced makers contributing, and keep the posting as productive as possible for you and everyone else.

[dogcatcher]

Some people will always try to be the best they can be, others will only try to get by with mediocrity. Some people will reach their plateau with mediocrity, and be as happy as can be. Others will reach their plateau with mediocrity and will almost kill themselves trying to improve their work. Some will reach the level of being the best in their field, better than anyone else and still not see perfection.

There is no way to change the fact that everyone has their own level expectations when they get started in a new hobby. Some will continually try to raise the bar higher and higher. They will become the masters of their own destiny, some will always try to just get by with the minimum.

I am a game callmaker, not a pipe maker, I see the same thing on the callmaking forums. I see the ones that want to learn, and I try to help them, those that are in my opinion too lazy to want to learn, I ignore. If they cannot read the old threads to answer the basic questions, I ignore them. Since Duck Dynasty has appeared on the scene, the number of people ignored has exploded.

You can lead the horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.

[RadDavis]

My quest here is for the acceptable ways to get airways lined up with tobacco chambers, and mortises lined up with airways, and why does the stem behind the button have to be 0.16", and how come people hate acrylic and insist on ebonite. I know there are different ways, different set ups, and I enjoy learning why people do things the way they do it. As for different techniques, I have seen people almost come to blows on whether one should pull a gouge or push it across the wood. I would love to live near enough to someone willing to show me how they do it, provided of course, that he or she knows what she is doing. In the meantime I have even backed off drilling briar, opting to drill holes in scrap wood first a few times to get my techniques perfected.

How to drill the perfect bowl/smoke channel intersection (drilling before shaping) on a straight pipe:

1. Make your block as perfectly square as possible (parallel sides) on a disk sander.

2. Draw your shape on the block.

3. Cut your shape out on the band saw.

4. Use the disk sander to refine the bottom line and the top of your cut out shape. Sand the end of the shank to the correct angle so that the stem "flows" out of it when it's attached.

5. Draw your drilling lines on the cut out shape and mark all centers with a pencil (top of bowl and end of shank). Top to bottom/side to side. Do this on the top of the bowl and on the end of the shank. This will show you exactly where your drill bit needs to plunge into the block. Mark your bits (bowl and smoke channel) to the correct length for each drilling. I use chalk, others use tape.

6. Chuck the block so that the drill is going to hit the bowl/smoke channel intersection when you drill it. With a chuck designed to hold a briar block this is fairly easy, since you can put one pin in the chuck onto the spot where the lines intersect. With other arrangements (drill press, etc.) you will have to figure this part out, but it Is critical.

7. With the block chucked up loosely, but with the pin still at the correct intersection, adjust the block so that your drill bit is gong to hit the center spot you have marked on the end of the shank. Tighten up the chuck, turn your pins into the block on both sides, and drill the smoke channel. Then drill your mortise, face, and countersink. Do any shaping on the shank that is necessary.

8. Loosen the chuck and spin the block so you're ready to drill the bowl. Check your alignment with a drill bit on the center spot you have already marked there, and adjust if necessary (it almost always is) to hit that spot. Drill your bowl down to the smoke channel, taking baby steps at the end and checking to make sure you don't go too low. It should be dead on.

This works the same on a bent pipe; the mortise just has to be drilled at a different angle.

I'm sure others will do this differently, but this method works well for me.

Hope this helps.

Rad

[PremalChheda]

On many or little occasion, I do feel that aspiring pipe makers whether on this forum, on the phone, or in person ask a question and expect an answer without trying to figure it out. Some of these pipe makers use the forum to ask questions to find the answer without practice, research, and experimentation.

Is this why you said you'd rather not critique some of the things on my pipes because I'd probably figure them out on my own?

It is because you got more natural talent than me in shaping and the critique is not needed.

[LittleBill]

Hope this helps.

Rad

It does, and I appreciate the time you took to type it out. For me this is probably the most basic problem to solve in making a functional pipe, and these are good instructions for a baseline for new pipe makers, of which I am one. I was speaking (writing) in generalities, about the importance of getting the basics down and understanding them before moving on to more advanced endeavors.

[The Smoking Yeti]

My quest here is for the acceptable ways to get airways lined up with tobacco chambers, and mortises lined up with airways, and why does the stem behind the button have to be 0.16", and how come people hate acrylic and insist on ebonite. I know there are different ways, different set ups, and I enjoy learning why people do things the way they do it. As for different techniques, I have seen people almost come to blows on whether one should pull a gouge or push it across the wood. I would love to live near enough to someone willing to show me how they do it, provided of course, that he or she knows what she is doing. In the meantime I have even backed off drilling briar, opting to drill holes in scrap wood first a few times to get my techniques perfected.

How to drill the perfect bowl/smoke channel intersection (drilling before shaping) on a straight pipe:

1. Make your block as perfectly square as possible (parallel sides) on a disk sander.

2. Draw your shape on the block.

3. Cut your shape out on the band saw.

4. Use the disk sander to refine the bottom line and the top of your cut out shape. Sand the end of the shank to the correct angle so that the stem "flows" out of it when it's attached.

5. Draw your drilling lines on the cut out shape and mark all centers with a pencil (top of bowl and end of shank). Top to bottom/side to side. Do this on the top of the bowl and on the end of the shank. This will show you exactly where your drill bit needs to plunge into the block. Mark your bits (bowl and smoke channel) to the correct length for each drilling. I use chalk, others use tape.

6. Chuck the block so that the drill is going to hit the bowl/smoke channel intersection when you drill it. With a chuck designed to hold a briar block this is fairly easy, since you can put one pin in the chuck onto the spot where the lines intersect. With other arrangements (drill press, etc.) you will have to figure this part out, but it Is critical.

7. With the block chucked up loosely, but with the pin still at the correct intersection, adjust the block so that your drill bit is gong to hit the center spot you have marked on the end of the shank. Tighten up the chuck, turn your pins into the block on both sides, and drill the smoke channel. Then drill your mortise, face, and countersink. Do any shaping on the shank that is necessary.

8. Loosen the chuck and spin the block so you're ready to drill the bowl. Check your alignment with a drill bit on the center spot you have already marked there, and adjust if necessary (it almost always is) to hit that spot. Drill your bowl down to the smoke channel, taking baby steps at the end and checking to make sure you don't go too low. It should be dead on.

This works the same on a bent pipe; the mortise just has to be drilled at a different angle.

I'm sure others will do this differently, but this method works well for me.

Hope this helps.

Rad

This sort of guidance will be very helpful once I get some two jaw chucks- I'll start drilling first for more standard sandblasts and what not.

[Yak]

Deleted as irrelevant.

[LatakiaLover]

You guys don't much like it when I come off didactically (which I tend to). But when you know what you're talking about, you know what you're talking about, whether that entails 20 years of street cred in a specific craft or not (like mastery in a production craft being a function not of "accomplishment" but of output efficiency/speed). Dealing in/going by "credibility" can be a useful shortcut, but if you look at history, the blind have also led the blind on occasion.

PMF, at its best, is a School. Capital letter to indicate that the usual "school" (like, Roosevelt Junior High School") is not in view, but something more basic.

Adjust your mental depth of focus for a minute and check this out :

Hundreds of years of "individual genius" aggrandisement notwithstanding, the great accomplishments in the arts, in Western Civilisation, from early on, have been the products of Schools.

Human capacity (mental and otherwise) is not unlike a battery. It has an output limit. But in a School, with the batteries involved wired in series, the output of the total transcends this limitation.

The Elizabethan dramatists, the sculptors of classical Greece, the Cremonese violinmakers, the Italian Renaissance painters/sculptors, the Gothic Architects, the Viennese composers from Haydn/Mozart through Beethoven/Schubert/Brahms, and, closer to home, the London and Danish Schools of pipemaking have all been collective enterprises in which the whole has, because of series wiring, as in a good marriage or team in sports, managed results greater than the sum of its parts would seemingly allow.

In every case, you had/have people sharing the valence of a common cause, aware of and playing off each other, whether they rub elbows in daily life or are only paying attention to each others' work within a framework of common assumptions and values.

That's what this place is when it's hitting on all cylinders -- a practical realisation of the potential the internet holds out so tantalisingly. Which is why I like hanging out here. It's watching history in the making. Pipe history is history too.

Bravo. This man gets it.

[The Smoking Yeti]

Yak, a very interesting post, a great way to think about what we're doing. Kinda sobering in some ways I suppose.

[PremalChheda]

It really is too bad we do not have more veteran pipe makers contributing to this forum. How awesome would it be if (Yes, I am going to name some names) Mike Butera, Tim West, Mark Tinsky, Tom Eltang, Former, Ivarsson, Tonni Nielsen, Rich Lewis, Erik Nording, Poul Winslow, Luigi Radice, Ascorti, Jaacky Craen, Roswitha Anderson, Luigi Viprati, Paolo Becker, Jess Chonowitsch, Teddy Knudsen, Tokutomi, Peter Matzhold, and a few more that I cannot remember at the moment. Notice anything about all these men/women? All but a few, were making pipes before I was born in 1977 and continue to do so. Maybe they do not know about the forum, or they do not want to share their trade secrets, or they are not tech savy or spend too much time on the internet. Fortunately, we do have some very talented intelligent contributors that have been collaborating with others and gathered knowledge and skill through practice and sharing. With the internet and this forum, it makes it possible for someone to make very nice pipes in a short period of time with no prior knowledge. I could name some names, but I do not want them to get too big of a head. The funny thing is that they are still asking important questions and starting to contribute themselves as a teacher. We would not have the high level of craftsmanship in pipes right now if it were not for this forum. Look at the guys that early on used this forum heavily - Jeff Gracik, Brad Pohlmann, Tyler Lane, Rad Davis - I may be missing a couple more.

[PremalChheda]

btw - this thread and a few others are in the wrong sections. I think we do need a few more moderators for this kind of thing, and I am not volunteering.

[RadDavis]

We really need a section for posting cat pictures.

Rad

[Literaryworkshop]

I'd sure love to see more high-end pipemakers posting here--to show off their work and to offer critique, of course--but the greatest benefit would be to just listen to them talking shop to each other. As a student (and now even as a teacher) I often learned the most by listening to two or more of my mentors hashing out the details of some issue they disagreed on. I've learned more about pipe shaping details by reading Ernie and George bickering with each other in a certain thread than I've learned from a dozen "critique my pipe" threads in the Gallery.

Problem is, participating in a forum takes time and energy. More participation from certain people might mean they get fewer pipes made. And I don't think anybody wants that.

[wmolaw]

Anyway, just to restate Tyler's title for this thread, I'll ask - what do you want to get out of PMF?

That's easy. I just like a place where I can talk to other people who are as passionate about pipes---the actual object that is the pipe---as I am.

Or in my case for some period of time, just to read those who are as passionate and a hell of a lot more knowledgeable.

[wmolaw]

I agree with you on this one, Ernie. I've also noticed that we have a lot more newby pipes being posted and less decent pipes. I remember when the bug bit I posted each and every one. God, they were awful! But, posting taught me a lot. Sometimes from the comments I got, sometimes from comments that other guys got, but most of all from the comments that I did not get. There's nothing wrong with that. It's wonderful to get excited about pipemaking and being able to share the passion.
But the main problem, I think, is that the more experienced makers do not post. I know it is a shlep, I know it takes time away from making, I know that guys do not like to take the chance of having their reputation ripped, etc etc. We need more decent pipes posted in the Gallery, to give us something to aspire to.
Get the high grade pipes back in the gallery. That is the solution, I think.

Not sure how long ago it was, but TJ came back and said he was going to be posting much more frequently. He did, for a short period of time, and it was, for me, exciting to read his posts, and ideas. As it is for most of the really good makers here.

Those who really help, really post, can't believe how much they help those who are just making pipes, even if they aren't going to make a living out of it.

And it's appreciated.

[wdteipen]

We really need a section for posting cat pictures.

Rad

That's what Facebook is for, Rad.

[LatakiaLover]

[Tyler]

btw - this thread and a few others are in the wrong sections. I think we do need a few more moderators for this kind of thing, and I am not volunteering.

I actually put split this post and put here on purpose. It started out as an off-topic comment in another gallery post. It was initially about why we post pipes, and I made up a poor title for the thread.

Anyhow, it's hard to predict where these threads will go, and I don't really want to play pin the tail on the topic.

I know you weren't criticizing, I'm just saying moving stuff after a thread has changed direction can kill a thread because it gets lost, and it becomes an impossible task with the ADD discussions of this group.

[e Markle]

Jaacky Craen

I don't know this name. Got any pics?