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I've been out of the game for a bit, but I was just starting to turn integral tenons right before I went on pipemaking hiatus. I was searching through some old posts to refresh myself on things like bit profile and whatnot when I started coming across posts suggesting a lot of people, including some major pipemaking names, are using delrin tenons. Are a lot of you using delrin? I started with it but moved to turning tenons from the ebonite rod. I can cut a functional tenon, but it's a bit of an arduous process for me. Just curious!

Both have advantages and disadvantages in functionality and fabrication.

After boiling down the pros and cons, it's a tie. "Craftsman's Choice"

I use integral tenons most of the time because they require less wait time. I can go right from turning the tenon to roughing the stem. There is also zero percent chance that the tenon will come loose. If you drop the pipe with a turned tenon, that's the spot most likely to break, which I think is preferable to the shank.

Having said that, there are good arguments for using delrin too.

Like what has been stated, there are pros and cons. Delrin is basically inert (that's why it is used in faucet components) and is self-lubricatiing. Humidity and normal temperature changes have little if any effect. Properly installed, it will not come out. Nuff said for me, the pros far outweigh the cons.
I'm sure you will now hear a multitude of reasons why Delrin sucks. This subject has been thrashed and trashed many a time here on this board.

I use derlin for thin-shank straight pipes like canadians and pencil-lovats. Derlin is strong anough even in 7mm width. Integral tenon must be at least 8.5mm if hole width is 4 mm.

Yes, pretty much always have and always will. Faster, more accurate, more consistent just plain better in my opinion. They don't look as good, I'll grant that but since my pipes err towards function rather than artistry that is fine with me.

oklahoma red wrote:This subject has been thrashed and trashed many a time here on this board.

Oh yeah, I know! I was just personally interested to hear what each person was doing and what the current 'climate' for tenons was. Purely out of curiosity. I think I'm going to keep learning how to turn an integral tenon for now, just to get the hang of it. But I also think I'm going to do a delrin tenon on a pipe, just to get the hang of it.

TRS wrote:

oklahoma red wrote:This subject has been thrashed and trashed many a time here on this board.

Oh yeah, I know! I was just personally interested to hear what each person was doing and what the current 'climate' for tenons was. Purely out of curiosity. I think I'm going to keep learning how to turn an integral tenon for now, just to get the hang of it. But I also think I'm going to do a delrin tenon on a pipe, just to get the hang of it.

Sounds like a plan to me.

I use both it depends on my mood and which pipe I'm making; or what the customer wants.

I have only cut a few tenons. I have discovered that the first few pipes I made over a year with delrin have started to come apart. I am not sure if I have already fixed this problem. When I first started I don't think I was putting deep enough grooves on the epoxy side. I think I have been doing a better job recently with scoring the delrin, but will it fall out eventually? Is there a better way to glue them shits into the stem? Not that I have ever sold a pipe, but this is becoming a concern of mine

Thanks,
Kiel

It will depend on your definition of "score" and how the "scores" are applied. One needs to have the epoxy form a mechanical lock as the epoxy will NOT form a "chemical" bond between the Delrin and the wood. Use a Dremel or flex shaft tool with a small diameter cylindrical cutter and apply 3 or 4 deep notches around the diameter of the tenon. Depth-wise go about half the thickness of your tenon wall. These notches must be at right angles to the bore or their effectiveness is reduced dramatically.
Next, switch to a medium size ball cutter and very carefully go inside the mortise and cut come corresponding grooves in the wall. Pre-drill the airway in the Delrin, preferably undersize. Apply the glue both to the mortise and the tenon. Insert with twisting motion to spread the glue. Clean up all the external squeeze-out and let it set overnight. Re-drill the airway all the way to the bowl to remove all the internal squeeze-out.
There will be those that say this is a PITA and too slow and to them I say "so what? It works". I thread all of mine but I still do the notch/groove routine to form the mechanical lock.

oklahoma red wrote:It will depend on your definition of "score" and how the "scores" are applied. One needs to have the epoxy form a mechanical lock as the epoxy will NOT form a "chemical" bond between the Delrin and the wood. Use a Dremel or flex shaft tool with a small diameter cylindrical cutter and apply 3 or 4 deep notches around the diameter of the tenon. Depth-wise go about half the thickness of your tenon wall. These notches must be at right angles to the bore or their effectiveness is reduced dramatically.
Next, switch to a medium size ball cutter and very carefully go inside the mortise and cut come corresponding grooves in the wall. Pre-drill the airway in the Delrin, preferably undersize. Apply the glue both to the mortise and the tenon. Insert with twisting motion to spread the glue. Clean up all the external squeeze-out and let it set overnight. Re-drill the airway all the way to the bowl to remove all the internal squeeze-out.
There will be those that say this is a PITA and too slow and to them I say "so what? It works". I thread all of mine but I still do the notch/groove routine to form the mechanical lock.

Good info. I haven't done anything this efficient, but I will give it a try! I am not concerned with the time it takes, but how long it will last. This sounds like it will last longer than what I've been doing.

Is there anything special that should be done if you're using ss tubing as a tenon?

I have been considering starting to sell some pipes this year but I think it would be embarrassing if the Delrin or ss tubibg falls out of the stem.

Thanks
Kiel

A very well done, stablized, integral tenon takes me quite a bit longer than delrin. Of course, just a good integral tenon is about the same time as delrin if you do not count the wait time for the glue to dry.

kamkiel wrote:

oklahoma red wrote:It will depend on your definition of "score" and how the "scores" are applied. One needs to have the epoxy form a mechanical lock as the epoxy will NOT form a "chemical" bond between the Delrin and the wood. Use a Dremel or flex shaft tool with a small diameter cylindrical cutter and apply 3 or 4 deep notches around the diameter of the tenon. Depth-wise go about half the thickness of your tenon wall. These notches must be at right angles to the bore or their effectiveness is reduced dramatically.
Next, switch to a medium size ball cutter and very carefully go inside the mortise and cut come corresponding grooves in the wall. Pre-drill the airway in the Delrin, preferably undersize. Apply the glue both to the mortise and the tenon. Insert with twisting motion to spread the glue. Clean up all the external squeeze-out and let it set overnight. Re-drill the airway all the way to the bowl to remove all the internal squeeze-out.
There will be those that say this is a PITA and too slow and to them I say "so what? It works". I thread all of mine but I still do the notch/groove routine to form the mechanical lock.

Good info. I haven't done anything this efficient, but I will give it a try! I am not concerned with the time it takes, but how long it will last. This sounds like it will last longer than what I've been doing.

Is there anything special that should be done if you're using ss tubing as a tenon?

I have been considering starting to sell some pipes this year but I think it would be embarrassing if the Delrin or ss tubibg falls out of the stem.

Thanks
Kiel

SS tubing is not as difficult. Abrade the glue area either by blasting or sand paper. You could cut some grooves as an added precaution.
CLEAN IT! (as with any glue joint). I use tubing with a .156 ID so I can easily run a drill bit or reamer thru to clean out any glue.

Regarding s/s, I think the above is really important. Stainless is normally a bit "oily", so you have to get rid of that before glueing.