Charl wrote:Like others also mentioned, I'm a bit baffled by the need for a truly flat mortise bottom. In my opinion it is not necessary. A normal bradpoint or even high speed bit does the trick just fine. For me it's overthinking things.
Yes, I know Exactly what your saying and I do have a tendency to be more precise in what I'm doing then needed but, that's just what I have to deal with being Obsessive Compulsive and perfectionist that never sees perfection in anything he does. (That's not a joke)
On the other hand when drilling a stem for a tenon I don't want any gap between the tenon and base of mortise in the stem to collect nasties, call me anal!
Just to add, the $10 spot weld bit will do this if not minimize it to my liking without the added work of reamers and such.
I'm not trying to argue with you Charl, I admit I over think a lot but, it's just my nature to try and get everything perfect. Have I? Hell No!
Once I figure out it can't be done (by me), I'll give up........maybe.
Please understand that SOME gap is necessary. If you bottom out you can create a gap at the shank/stem juncture. Said gap can be created by the wood swelling slightly from the moisture in the smoke stream. This swelling can push the stem out ever so slightly to ruin the no-gap joint you sweated blood to create. About .005 gap would be ideal. Any gunk that gets in there is going to be insignificant and can be taken care of in the regular cleaning and maintenance of the pipe.
If I wasn't this way you guys wouldn't have anybody to laugh at.
I understand now the needed gap between the tenon and base of the mortise in the SHANK, my concern now is the gap between the bottom of the tenon in the mortise you have to drill in the STEM to fit and epoxy the tenon in. This gap may be filled with epoxy when gluing but, no one knows for sure. Besides I see no problem with a good clean fit there. Of course I don't know everything either.
The gap in the stem/tenon joint can be eliminated by cutting the end angle of the tenon going into the stem at the same angle as the drill bit you're using to drill the stem mortise.
andrew wrote:The gap in the stem/tenon joint can be eliminated by cutting the end angle of the tenon going into the stem at the same angle as the drill bit you're using to drill the stem mortise.
Yes, I thought about that but, for ME to get it to match properly would be more work then it's worth.
This way there's no second step in shaping the end of the tenon, just drill and it's done.
You are correct, there's no problem with a bottomed-out fit in the stem. I thread my tenons but my procedure applies to press-in also. Drill a slightly undersize hole thru the tenon before gluing it in. You can also drill this same size hole a little beyond the bottom of the mortise in the stem. Apply enough glue so that you feel certain you have left no gaps in the joint. The idea is to provide a place for the epoxy squeeze-out to go when pressing in the tenon. After the glue has hardened come back with your final-size drill and open up the airway which removes the squeeze-out and leaves you with a nice slick airway.
andrew wrote:The gap in the stem/tenon joint can be eliminated by cutting the end angle of the tenon going into the stem at the same angle as the drill bit you're using to drill the stem mortise.
Yes, I thought about that but, for ME to get it to match properly would be more work then it's worth.
This way there's no second step in shaping the end of the tenon, just drill and it's done.
Thanks for the sketch Andrew but I must take exception to your statement that the gap can be eliminated by......................
Again, you want to leave a slight gap to allow for expansion. Your drawing illustrates my earlier comment about shaping the end of the tenon to match the bottom config of the mortise. Just don't bottom out. NOT ultra critical if one is making a joint other than flush fit but it is still a good habit to practice in my opinion.
oklahoma red wrote:You are correct, there's no problem with a bottomed-out fit in the stem. I thread my tenons but my procedure applies to press-in also. Drill a slightly undersize hole thru the tenon before gluing it in. You can also drill this same size hole a little beyond the bottom of the mortise in the stem. Apply enough glue so that you feel certain you have left no gaps in the joint. The idea is to provide a place for the epoxy squeeze-out to go when pressing in the tenon. After the glue has hardened come back with your final-size drill and open up the airway which removes the squeeze-out and leaves you with a nice slick airway.
That sounds like a good idea, thank you sir.
I just drill my draft in the stem, drill my mortise in it and turn a couple of slots on the sides of predrilled tenons, glue it in and when set drill the draft hole out with a tapper drill and done basically. I have used threaded tenons in repairing stems and they work great too but, prethreaded tenons a bit more pricey and I'm a cheap bastard at best. Threading my own? We'' we're just look'en for trouble.
andrew wrote:The gap in the stem/tenon joint can be eliminated by cutting the end angle of the tenon going into the stem at the same angle as the drill bit you're using to drill the stem mortise.
Yes, I thought about that but, for ME to get it to match properly would be more work then it's worth.
This way there's no second step in shaping the end of the tenon, just drill and it's done.
Thanks for the sketch Andrew but I must take exception to your statement that the gap can be eliminated by......................
Again, you want to leave a slight gap to allow for expansion. Your drawing illustrates my earlier comment about shaping the end of the tenon to match the bottom config of the mortise. Just don't bottom out. NOT ultra critical if one is making a joint other than flush fit but it is still a good habit to practice in my opinion.
Now your loosing me. What is the need for a gap between the base of the tenon and the mortise in the Stem?