No.10 Pipe for Critique

[clickklick]

So then is it generally bad if someone posts their works on other forums . . . gets the ooh and aahs, but still puts in the work and listens to the critiques to continuously improve from THIS forum?

I post all the pipes I've made on the other forums I participate in, but only take the criticism I get here to help me improve. . . just because the other forums give ooh and aahs shouldn't discredit the individual posting here for critique.

I mean, I post pipes for critique and barely get a comment most of the time, but the minute I say I'm selling a pipe, the thread becomes grand central station, much like this one. Like if I can't even get an honest comment like "Hey bro, that pipe is shit, start over . . . " until I've decided to sell a pipe, how does one try to understand? There aren't these "unwritten rules of pipemaking" stickies anywhere I've seen. So I agree to an extent that you have to take negative critiques and learn from them, but I don't necessarilly get the mentality of WHO deserves a critique and who doesn't.

And on to the Sandahl issue . . . the guy is wonderful for this hobby. He has taken his time to give me honest critiques and even offered me a visit to his shop once it is complete. I met him in Chicago and can assure you that if he has ever said anything to put you off, it was read in the wrong way as he is genuinely passionate about this. If you are going to call people names, back it up with something other than vague suggestions. Personal attacks are not really needed. And noone should call anyone their son unless they've impregnated that individuals mother. That's just bad manners

[WCannoy]

So then is it generally bad if someone posts their works on other forums . . . gets the ooh and aahs, but still puts in the work and listens to the critiques to continuously improve from THIS forum?

No, that's not bad at all... Just don't go down the slippery slope of ignoring the criticism just because the general public applauds your work.

I mean, I post pipes for critique and barely get a comment most of the time, but the minute I say I'm selling a pipe, the thread becomes grand central station, much like this one.

A child can run around like a loon in the front yard all day without being scolded, but as soon as he runs too close to the road...

but I don't necessarilly get the mentality of WHO deserves a critique and who doesn't.

Tyler told me recently that my stems were too fat. I've since slimmed them down. Nobody is above critique.

And on to the Sandahl issue . . .

I met Jeremiah in Chicago a couple years ago, where he had a case of pipes he asked me to critique. I sat for an hour and told him why his pipes were shit. Instead of taking it personally and getting defensive, he was receptive to the criticism and demonstrated a burning desire to learn and improve his work. A year later, he had taken his work to the next level. A year after that, his work was much better still! This guy has an insatiable thirst for knowledge when it comes to pipemaking, and he'll do anything to make his work better.

I have given tips and demonstrations on pipemaking from time to time, but never have become so involved in "mentoring" someone in pipemaking as I have with Jeremiah. Admittedly, my involvement was not determined by some sort of potential that I saw in him, rather, it came as a product of his willingness to learn.

As for Jeremiah's "ankle biting"... Well, you can blame me. As anyone who has ever been to college can tell you, peer reviews and critique are an important part of the learning process, both for the critique-ee and the critique-er! To give a critique is just that much more practice on training your eye to see what is right and wrong in a piece of work, and I encouraged Jeremiah to get on this board and participate and critique as part of his learning process.

[Ratimus]

I mean, I post pipes for critique and barely get a comment most of the time, but the minute I say I'm selling a pipe, the thread becomes grand central station, much like this one. Like if I can't even get an honest comment like "Hey bro, that pipe is shit, start over . . . " until I've decided to sell a pipe, how does one try to understand?

My take on this is that people who just start making pipes typically tend to make a lot of the same mistakes. There are many, many threads addressing these mistakes, and it doesn't always make sense to keep saying the same things over and over when so much of that information is already detailed somewhere else. It's sort of expected that you will keep making pipes and applying what you learn on these forums to figure things out on your own. As you do, you will learn to start seeing the ways your pipes could be made better. (Also, it makes sense that no one wants to offer critique if every comment is met with "that was a design decision, and you hurt my feelings").

When someone posts their third pipe ever to the gallery, it's sort of assumed that they know they're not making high-grade pipes yet. When you post a pipe that you're selling, it's different from someone saying "I maked a pipe!!!11!one" because you're implying you've reached a level of quality that's worth putting out into the world. If the pipemaker in question is still not quite "there" yet, people are more likely to offer critique to point out things the pipemaker may not see in their own pipes.

Does that make sense? Posting a pipe to the gallery is like asking "how can I make this better?" There is no threshold of quality that needs to be met, and oftentimes the answers for how to improve are already there. Any criticism would be along the lines of how to move forward with your pipemaking in general. With a for-sale pipe, this changes because it focuses the critique more on the individual pipe, pointing out why that particular pipe may not yet clear the bar. Any comments stating that a given pipe should not be sold are usually, as previously stated, intended to save the pipemaker from potential future embarrassment over having started selling their work too early.

Edit:

A child can run around like a loon in the front yard all day without being scolded, but as soon as he runs too close to the road...

And then Walt says all of the above in one sentence.

[clickklick]

That makes complete sense. Thank you Walt and Ratimus! I'm going to go act like a loon in the front yard now!

[Sasquatch]

Watch the fuckin road!

[Alden]

Here's the thing about posts getting ignored... Nobodys getting paid to do it. So it seems certain threads just catch attention, and some float off into the sunset.
It's a fun place to hang out, because it's not all one big dry boring drawn out critique. That means some posts get ignored, some get a ton of attention, and some turn into stand up comedy tours.
Typically what you are posting with your first dozen pipes calls for critique that has been hashed out over and over again for years. People get tired of saying basically, thats mediocre.

[clickklick]

Watch the fuckin road!

Maybe I should be banished to the backyard for a while?!



I suppose most people that post their own pictures like a critique of the actual piece they made themselves. So I know the search function works well on this forum, but I have found that in my pipes I tend to get immersed in them and without a critique from another person, I would overlook an otherwise glaring issue. But I guess it comes with the territory. So I completely understand.

Now that this thread has been completely hijacked . . .

[Alden]

No by all means, keep posting. I'm just saying some of them will get attention, some may not, and that's why. Put up a $100 reward for most useful critique and I bet it gets noticed.

[PremalChheda]

The finish does look nice. Even the colors are good.

The biggest thing I'm seeing here is that you set out to make a bent pipe, but then made a straight shank. Let that bottom line on the shank swing from the shank face under the bowl and the chin won't look so pointy.

It also looks like there's either a hairline gap between shank and stem in the pictures.

For pipe number 10, this is good work, though!

This is not a great critique. More opinion. However, there is nothing malicious in it. Just Sandahl trying to be helpful. R.D., name calling is not the way to go my friend.

[PremalChheda]

You should make pipes the way you want. If you wanna make pipes with backward cant and straight shanks, just know that it's not found in the Danish or English aesthetic. I think you should at least try it once to make a pipe with a bent shank. Then at least you can say with conviction that you made the shank straight because that's how you like it, not because that was the easy way out.

It is found in the English aesthetic. Almost all French and English Bents have straight shanks. There are some Danish that do too like Dan Pipe and Gert Holbek.

[PremalChheda]

Seriously though, I noticed the same thing, Walt. I was wondering the other day why all the "big dogs" haven't been so active these days, and this might be the reason. I wouldn't waste time and mental effort to give carefully thought out advice if people were going to get all huffy about it, either.

The big dogs are mostly not active here because they are working and taking care of their families. Also, they were active when they were learning mostly. Only a few stuck around after they learned what they needed.

[LatakiaLover]

The #1 thing guaranteed to kill the buzz & dynamic of a place like this is when someone of limited ability requests assistance via critique/feedback, gets defensive when they receive it, and then goes All Nasty when told that they're getting defensive.

End of story. (And middle, and beginning)