Pipe Carvers Guild?

[Sasquatch]

See, I thought I was being pretty oblique, but I guess you guys read between the lines, huh?

[sparkyspipes]

The guild is a support for carvers to learn from fellow carvers in a environment that is comfortable with constructive criticism instead of shit talk. The ranking system is the same type that has been used and is used to this day for guilds around the world, it not only helps the carver want to keep learning more and furthering his/her skill, it also helps the consumer know what kind of carver he or she is.
We do have guys from around the world involved, at many different levels. We have talked with guys that are senors of the carving world as well as collectors, media representatives, distributors and the heads of this forum to hammer out the document that you guys are talking about. We do have many people that are involved in the giuld for judging pipes as all high ranking levels are judged outside of the guild, to include great carvers like Tom Eltang and extremely knowledgeable gentleman like Greg Pease.

As for if their is any carvers in the guild that have been "around" for a decade? See my bio if you have concerns.

As for regulations you have talked about, ALL the members know them and agree with them, NO one is required to do the ranking system and we have many that just want it as a hobby and are not doing the ranking system. As for selling threw vendors, all the guys that have been in this game should know that selling to vendors to early can be the death of a carver as his product will be known at his lowest skill level he will ever be at.

In short, the guys that come to the pipe carvers guild and are in the guild come for help in learning skills, to BS and have fun. As shown here in this post, this trade can have people flaming others without knowledge or reason.
If you have any questions about the guild or problems with it, Please do not direct them at the guild as I started it and run it, the guys do not deserve crap being said just because they are trying to become as good as they can be.
I will and should take any blame or flamage regarding the guild, so get a hold of me if you have any problems or if you feel very vocal on the subject please, next time I am at a show look for the black cowboy hat, unlike the joke stated a while ago, mine is a real one . I would be happy to sit down with anyone to hear their concerns or thoughts. Or if you are not going to a show I can try to find a time to come to you and talk face to face.
scott
sparkyspipes

[PremalChheda]

Scott,

Well done. You are a very reasonable man and your response is very professional. I understand what the guild is about now and it is a good thing you are doing. I am not sure about how it really qualifies as a classic guild, but I really do not have a knowledge of these things. I do not have any concerns or thoughts about the guild, but the next time I see you at a pipe show, I will have a chat with you and shoot the shit and a smoke and a drink.

The guild is a support for carvers to learn from fellow carvers in a environment that is comfortable with constructive criticism instead of shit talk. The ranking system is the same type that has been used and is used to this day for guilds around the world, it not only helps the carver want to keep learning more and furthering his/her skill, it also helps the consumer know what kind of carver he or she is.
We do have guys from around the world involved, at many different levels. We have talked with guys that are senors of the carving world as well as collectors, media representatives, distributors and the heads of this forum to hammer out the document that you guys are talking about. We do have many people that are involved in the giuld for judging pipes as all high ranking levels are judged outside of the guild, to include great carvers like Tom Eltang and extremely knowledgeable gentleman like Greg Pease.

As for if their is any carvers in the guild that have been "around" for a decade? See my bio if you have concerns.

As for regulations you have talked about, ALL the members know them and agree with them, NO one is required to do the ranking system and we have many that just want it as a hobby and are not doing the ranking system. As for selling threw vendors, all the guys that have been in this game should know that selling to vendors to early can be the death of a carver as his product will be known at his lowest skill level he will ever be at.

In short, the guys that come to the pipe carvers guild and are in the guild come for help in learning skills, to BS and have fun. As shown here in this post, this trade can have people flaming others without knowledge or reason.
If you have any questions about the guild or problems with it, Please do not direct them at the guild as I started it and run it, the guys do not deserve crap being said just because they are trying to become as good as they can be.
I will and should take any blame or flamage regarding the guild, so get a hold of me if you have any problems or if you feel very vocal on the subject please, next time I am at a show look for the black cowboy hat, unlike the joke stated a while ago, mine is a real one . I would be happy to sit down with anyone to hear their concerns or thoughts. Or if you are not going to a show I can try to find a time to come to you and talk face to face.
scott
sparkyspipes

[sparkyspipes]

Scott,

Well done. You are a very reasonable man and your response is very professional. I understand what the guild is about now and it is a good thing you are doing. I am not sure about how it really qualifies as a classic guild, but I really do not have a knowledge of these things. I do not have any concerns or thoughts about the guild, but the next time I see you at a pipe show, I will have a chat with you and shoot the shit and a smoke and a drink.

Sounds great, Im always up for a pipe and a beer!

[mightysmurf8201]

Hey Sparky, will you be at Columbus? It would be cool to chat.

[sparkyspipes]

Hey Sparky, will you be at Columbus? It would be cool to chat.

Na I cant make Columbus or Nashville this year cause we spent a lot of our free cash this year on stuff for the ranch, BUT I will be at Vegas, I wont be doing a table, just going down to hang out with the guys, meet and great new guys and have a blast. If anyone is going to Vegas, The Irish bar down stairs is were most of us hang out.

[sandahlpipe]

Scott, I appreciate that you're an absolute gentleman. It's in everybody's best interest to help guys early on to recognize criteria which make a pipe sellable and it's good to know that there are other people doing that. And for those guys who thrive with a guild hierarchy system, you've got something to meet their needs.

And by the way, I enjoyed sitting next to you at the Chicago show this year. The only thing that could have made it cooler is if they would let you carry your six-shooters on your hip.

[sparkyspipes]

Scott, I appreciate that you're an absolute gentleman. It's in everybody's best interest to help guys early on to recognize criteria which make a pipe sellable and it's good to know that there are other people doing that. And for those guys who thrive with a guild hierarchy system, you've got something to meet their needs.

And by the way, I enjoyed sitting next to you at the Chicago show this year. The only thing that could have made it cooler is if they would let you carry your six-shooters on your hip.

It was a blast hanging out for sure! I just don't understand Chicago laws, Idaho lets me open carry everywhere.

[andrew]

Our state does have its perks. [WINKING FACE]

[andrew]

[Sasquatch]

I'm all for constructive criticism Scott, and your heart genuinely seems to be in the right place, and placing that against "shit talk" is correct - and there is and has been too much shit-talk on this board for its own good imho. C'est la vie.

I hate strata-oriented professional associations and I think they weaken trades. We could argue about this all night and maybe we will some night.

I would NOT direct my insults, profanity, blame etc at you yourself but much RATHER at the body you are trying to create, which is to say, I don't want this to be personal, I don't hate you and I hope you don't hate me (wouldn't blame you if you did). Maybe someone has to be Stanley Kubrick and someone has to be the Oscars....

[LatakiaLover]

The word itself is a big hill to climb.

Here's the classic definition:

A guild is an association of artisans or merchants who control the practice of their craft. The earliest types of guild were formed as confraternities of tradesmen. They were organized in a manner something between a professional association, trade union, a cartel, and a secret society. They often depended on grants of letters patent by a monarch or other authority to enforce the flow of trade to their self-employed members, and to retain ownership of tools and the supply of materials.

It should be obvious upon reading that why the concept is laughably impractical in the 21st century. Besides being impossible to implement in the Internet Age, people have come to resent monopolies and similar attempts to manipulate & control markets like never before.

It sounds from Sparky's post that HIS group is something quite different, but that's the problem. It's like introducing yourself as a pedophile to everyone you meet at a party, except you don't mean in the conventional and accepted meaning of the term, but rather some phonetic Icelandic translation of an Arabic word which means "one who pilots airplanes." Even if you explain it later, the initial impression and association lingers.

Here in the Midwest, that's called "borrowing trouble".

[sparkyspipes]

Our state does have its perks. [WINKING FACE]

YES IT DOS!

[sparkyspipes]

I'm all for constructive criticism Scott, and your heart genuinely seems to be in the right place, and placing that against "shit talk" is correct - and there is and has been too much shit-talk on this board for its own good imho. C'est la vie.

I hate strata-oriented professional associations and I think they weaken trades. We could argue about this all night and maybe we will some night.

I would NOT direct my insults, profanity, blame etc at you yourself but much RATHER at the body you are trying to create, which is to say, I don't want this to be personal, I don't hate you and I hope you don't hate me (wouldn't blame you if you did). Maybe someone has to be Stanley Kubrick and someone has to be the Oscars....

totally understand, Its just one that if a group of guys are finding a place to become better, we should not talk about the place as bad, wrong or evil as doing so then we are talking about the people in the place but we should talk about the leadership and direction govern by the leadership which is most peoples issue with this kind of thing, and that would be me, I got big shoulders and the good harted guys improving themselves and helping others as they go should not feel attacked in any way for doing the right thing in a trade were so many only work for the $ and not the art of pipe making.
No worries

[sparkyspipes]

The word itself is a big hill to climb.

Here's the classic definition:

A guild is an association of artisans or merchants who control the practice of their craft. The earliest types of guild were formed as confraternities of tradesmen. They were organized in a manner something between a professional association, trade union, a cartel, and a secret society. They often depended on grants of letters patent by a monarch or other authority to enforce the flow of trade to their self-employed members, and to retain ownership of tools and the supply of materials.

It should be obvious upon reading that why the concept is laughably impractical in the 21st century. Besides being impossible to implement in the Internet Age, people have come to resent monopolies and similar attempts to manipulate & control markets like never before.

It sounds from Sparky's post that HIS group is something quite different, but that's the problem. It's like introducing yourself as a pedophile to everyone you meet at a party, except you don't mean in the conventional and accepted meaning of the term, but rather some phonetic Icelandic translation of an Arabic word which means "one who pilots airplanes." Even if you explain it later, the initial impression and association lingers.

Here in the Midwest, that's called "borrowing trouble".

some what agree, But, We named it a Guild (because of what most people today think with the name) to help the random person immediately understand that the guys in this group are schooling them selves with piers and mentors to be more than the average. We have been going strong for over a 1 1/2 years now, buyers like the idea, Distributors like the idea, Most makers like the idea. MOST if not 99% contacted were elated of the guild idea and most of all established makers want something to help new carvers learn so they are not producing sub par product and wasting funds and turning off buyers of the industry.

We have to look at it as we can not have it both ways, either we help the new and mid range carvers accelerate into great carvers and strengthen our trade or do nothing and watch it fall.
Most old guilds that fell away was due to one thing, good old boy system of control, bend to my will or you will not achieve a title and their for you will not sell any product (even tho when the strongest guilds were in place their were many independent tradesman that were not attached to any organization). This is why we have took over 6 mths and MANY people involved to forge our ranking system and to have it as independent as possible. having a panel of judges that is varied and randomized for who is judging at time of testing.

If we don't want the fall of pipe making and pipe buyers, WE as established pipe makers have to step up and bite the bullet to be criticize and flamage to make a change to insure CRAP will not be sold as good pipes, that the buyer knows when they buy a product they get what they paid for and not just because some guy made a video saying WOW AWESOME!
I for one love pipe making and pipe smoking, and am willing to take whatever comes my way to help the industry, I have done it since before the guild was founded to know, and as far as I am concerned, as long as guys want help I will be here for them. Should I have called it a guild rather than a group, club, school or pub, Who cares, as long as it is doing its job to help the industry and carvers.

I understand your point and some what agree but don't get hung up on the little stuff like what I called the darn thing, lets worry more about the future of pipe making

[Sasquatch]

Just for the bystanders here, Sparky and I have exchanged a few messages. I find him totally reasonable, epathetic to concerns, and basically not a dickhead at all.

Disseminating pipe-making info is a good thing.

[sparkyspipes]

Just for the bystanders here, Sparky and I have exchanged a few messages. I find him totally reasonable, epathetic to concerns, and basically not a dickhead at all.

Disseminating pipe-making info is a good thing.

I try and only be a dickhead on Mondays, Tuesdays and Sundays, SOOO i wont be posting on the forum those days.

[Alden]

I find him totally reasonable, epathetic to concerns, and basically not a dickhead at all.

[andrew]

I find him totally reasonable, epathetic to concerns, and basically not a dickhead at all.

Ryan, this is horribly disturbing and completely appropriate. Are you the big guy on the left? I didn't know you had a cleft chin.

[JMG]

They can suck my cock, because that's what I think of this kind of shit.

Dude, why are you wasting time with fences ? You missed your calling in International Diplomacy.

*audible chuckle*