pipemakersforum.com

OK, the sky has apparently fallen and the FDA (insert your own adjectives for those three letters) has ruled that pipes are evil and shall be "regulated". Has anyone determined what the impact is going to be on the artisan pipe maker? Are pipe shows going to become extinct? The impact on brick and mortar shops is obvious. The feds can walk right in and make their SS demands. How can they "regulate" a transaction between two individuals? Is the NSA going to get involved and police the internet for illicit and unregulated pipe sales? Can the last millimeter (sorry Bruce) of a tenon not be drilled and the pipe sold as a piece of art that is not capable of being smoked? Would this be like plugging the barrel of a vintage Thompson machine gun and selling it as a non-functioning "collector's item" and therefore be immune from the ATF? (I predict a shortage of .156 drill bits or will they too be "regulated"?) Will a briar "tax" be next? Will briar have to be smuggled into the US by "mules" that swallowed ebauchons? (will your smoke now have a new "aroma"?)
Are we all going to be rounded up in the middle of the night by the Pipe Gestapo and be hauled away in box cars to work on the FDA's secret marijuana farms?
Now that I have written this manifesto I suspect that I shall be forever be branded as a tobacco "terrorist" and put on the FDA's most wanted list. In the immortal words of Frank Zappa: I'm moving to Montana to grow a crop of dental floss.

Remember, Big Brother is watching everybody.

Inquiring minds want answers to "what's next?".

I don't think artisan makers are a big enough deal to where they threaten anybody's market share. As such, I have a hard time be,Kevin's they're going to come after anybody. And whether the user buys them to smoke weed or the more heavily regulated tobacco, I don't see how they can tell the difference except through marketing.

We have invited the vampire into our homes. Through our indifference and sheepish nature's
We have not given the FDA a dose of "WE THE PEOPLE" WE might not be the most politically
Savy people around but our servants have become our masters remind your servants that "YOU CAN COUNT"
In the form of votes at the polls

I wrote to all my Reps. and got only one reply. It stated, thank you for your concern, but this is taken up in Wash.D.C. ??? We are no longer represented and for all the liberal, political sheep. Stand by for your shearing, You deserve it. "God, I hope I didn't offend anyone!!!

We'll still sell pipes as long as there is a disclaimer that says "for marijuana use only" and if somebody insinuates they plan on smoking tobacco out of them you don't sell to them.

Ratimus, in this world today, You have a good idea!!!

Ratimus wrote:We'll still sell pipes as long as there is a disclaimer that says "for marijuana use only" and if somebody insinuates they plan on smoking tobacco out of them you don't sell to them.

Most states, where MJ is not legal, have drug paraphernalia laws. How would you circumvent those?

oklahoma red wrote:

Ratimus wrote:We'll still sell pipes as long as there is a disclaimer that says "for marijuana use only" and if somebody insinuates they plan on smoking tobacco out of them you don't sell to them.

Most states, where MJ is not legal, have drug paraphernalia laws. How would you circumvent those?

Corn silk for the non MJ states.

dogcatcher wrote:

oklahoma red wrote:

Ratimus wrote:We'll still sell pipes as long as there is a disclaimer that says "for marijuana use only" and if somebody insinuates they plan on smoking tobacco out of them you don't sell to them.

Most states, where MJ is not legal, have drug paraphernalia laws. How would you circumvent those?

Corn silk for the non MJ states.

I used to puff on grape vines when I was a kid. My tongue is still swollen.

Well all, without asking, my new bussiness License came today! It has read
'" Pipe manufacturer,"" since I moved to this city, and now.... I am a Craft manufacturer...I don't know with the political environment, if this is good or bad??? I just hate having to sell a person a Doo dad, You fill in the blank........... holding a pipe!!! Well the least of it is, that local Gov. is telling me who I am??? I didn't even get dinner!!!!!! Comments please......

I just got an E-mail from the Governors Ofc. Fl. States"" He is overwhelmed with E-mail and it might be a long while before He can respond"" I wrote back thanked him for nothing and signed it John the Craft manufacturer!!!!!!!!!

oklahoma red wrote:OK, the sky has apparently fallen and the FDA (insert your own adjectives for those three letters) has ruled that pipes are evil and shall be "regulated". Has anyone determined what the impact is going to be on the artisan pipe maker? Are pipe shows going to become extinct? The impact on brick and mortar shops is obvious. The feds can walk right in and make their SS demands. How can they "regulate" a transaction between two individuals? Is the NSA going to get involved and police the internet for illicit and unregulated pipe sales? Can the last millimeter (sorry Bruce) of a tenon not be drilled and the pipe sold as a piece of art that is not capable of being smoked? Would this be like plugging the barrel of a vintage Thompson machine gun and selling it as a non-functioning "collector's item" and therefore be immune from the ATF? (I predict a shortage of .156 drill bits or will they too be "regulated"?) Will a briar "tax" be next? Will briar have to be smuggled into the US by "mules" that swallowed ebauchons? (will your smoke now have a new "aroma"?)
Are we all going to be rounded up in the middle of the night by the Pipe Gestapo and be hauled away in box cars to work on the FDA's secret marijuana farms?
Now that I have written this manifesto I suspect that I shall be forever be branded as a tobacco "terrorist" and put on the FDA's most wanted list. In the immortal words of Frank Zappa: I'm moving to Montana to grow a crop of dental floss.

Remember, Big Brother is watching everybody.

Inquiring minds want answers to "what's next?".

Can you give a reference for this FDA ruling. I missed this.
DocAitch

pipedreamer wrote:Well all, without asking, my new bussiness License came today! It has read
'" Pipe manufacturer,"" since I moved to this city, and now.... I am a Craft manufacturer...I don't know with the political environment, if this is good or bad??? I just hate having to sell a person a Doo dad, You fill in the blank........... holding a pipe!!! Well the least of it is, that local Gov. is telling me who I am??? I didn't even get dinner!!!!!! Comments please......

Dude just leave it alone... don't ask, don't tell.

DocAitch wrote:

oklahoma red wrote:OK, the sky has apparently fallen and the FDA (insert your own adjectives for those three letters) has ruled that pipes are evil and shall be "regulated". Has anyone determined what the impact is going to be on the artisan pipe maker? Are pipe shows going to become extinct? The impact on brick and mortar shops is obvious. The feds can walk right in and make their SS demands. How can they "regulate" a transaction between two individuals? Is the NSA going to get involved and police the internet for illicit and unregulated pipe sales? Can the last millimeter (sorry Bruce) of a tenon not be drilled and the pipe sold as a piece of art that is not capable of being smoked? Would this be like plugging the barrel of a vintage Thompson machine gun and selling it as a non-functioning "collector's item" and therefore be immune from the ATF? (I predict a shortage of .156 drill bits or will they too be "regulated"?) Will a briar "tax" be next? Will briar have to be smuggled into the US by "mules" that swallowed ebauchons? (will your smoke now have a new "aroma"?)
Are we all going to be rounded up in the middle of the night by the Pipe Gestapo and be hauled away in box cars to work on the FDA's secret marijuana farms?
Now that I have written this manifesto I suspect that I shall be forever be branded as a tobacco "terrorist" and put on the FDA's most wanted list. In the immortal words of Frank Zappa: I'm moving to Montana to grow a crop of dental floss.

Remember, Big Brother is watching everybody.

Inquiring minds want answers to "what's next?".

Can you give a reference for this FDA ruling. I missed this.
DocAitch

I cannot take you to it specifically. I saw two different video clips on Instagram where the talking heads at the FDA were having a round-table discussion and gave the official word.
Search for Moonshine Pipes on IG. This guy was really steamed up.

I searched FDA.gov and apparently they have decided to regulate all tobacco products, not pipes or other paraphernalia.
The part which is apparently causing concern for pipe and cigar smokers is the requirement that tobacco products developed after 2007 will be subjected to extensive, expensive testing requirements. Anything that was in the pipeline before that date will not be tested.
It sounds like a lot of newer pipe tobaccos and cigars will be affected and perhaps withdrawn from the market. There will also be health labeling, age restrictions etc.
From my brief research, it does not appear that pipes in general and artisan pipes in particular will be affected by this ruling.
DocAitch

Pipes and other "delivery appliances" are specifically mentioned, right down to mouthpieces and bowls.

Now, how do they enforce this? No idea. Can't see how they could stop Joe Pipemaker in his basement.

I think the reason EVERYTHING was listed is because they learned that being specific caused rules lawyering and end-runs. Like when pipe tobacco was specifically excluded a few years ago from cigarette taxes, and overnight RYO tobacco was sold as "pipe tobacco."

In short, just because artisan pipes technically fall under USDA jurisdiction it's doubtful they actually give a shit about them. They just wanted to use blanket language so whatever it is they DO want to mess with can't scurry away and try to hide behind BS labels in the future.

In other news concerning politics, bureaucrats, and intelligence, behold this gem: (Hint -- Sas lives in a country increasingly run by self-serving, dogmatic, delusional idiots. Kinda like the US. )


http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/07/06 ... cmp=hplnws

Sasquatch wrote:Pipes and other "delivery appliances" are specifically mentioned, right down to mouthpieces and bowls.

Now, how do they enforce this? No idea. Can't see how they could stop Joe Pipemaker in his basement.

Sasquatch,
Please guide me to that list. I looked at the FDA site again, but found nothing except that "accessories are excluded"
DocAitch

Well originally, when I read it, they specifically mentioned pipes and broke down and specificlally stated mouthpieces and bowls were going to be regulated.

The latest copy seems to be this: bold is mine

"Comment 165) Some comments tried to compare pipes and rolling papers (which are required to smoke tobacco) with e-cigarettes (which are required to “vape” e-liquids), stating that e-cigarettes should not be regulated. They indicated that, unlike rolling paper which is “intended for human consumption” and therefore a tobacco product component, a pipe is “non-consumable” and should not be considered a tobacco product component. They said that, like pipes, e-cigarettes are “non-consumable products” and, therefore, are not components or parts of tobacco products and not subject to regulation. They also stated that only the e-liquid is the consumable product and should be the only part of the e-cigarette subject to regulation.
(Response) The definition of “tobacco product” as set forth in section 201(rr) of the FD&C Act includes all components, parts, and accessories of tobacco products (except for raw materials other than tobacco used in manufacturing a component, part, or accessory of a tobacco product). FDA interprets components and parts of a tobacco product to include any assembly of materials intended or reasonably expected: (1) To alter or affect the tobacco product's performance, composition, constituents or characteristics; or (2) to be used with or for the human consumption of a tobacco product. Both e-cigarettes and pipes meet this definition. Thus, such products are subject to FDA's chapter IX authorities as a result of this rule.

from https://www.federalregister.gov/article ... y-the#h-45


However, in reading and reading and reading, really these guys seem not to care so much for pipes as for hookahs and stuff and more specifically for the vape stuff (which has always been my reading into this anyhow). Pipes get mentioned a few times but basically in this document are not singled out like I had seen before.

Thanks. I guess that we will have to wait to see what actually happens.
DocAitch