Shelf Life Of Shellac

[ArtGuy]

Hey guys,

I have read that schellac has a shelf life of about 6 months and that most prof. woodworkers will not use it after that. With the ultra thin coat used in pipe making this may not mean much to us, however, I though I would ask...

Do any of you worry about such a thing?

[RadDavis]

Hi John,

I have been using my can of Zinser's for almost 2 years, and I don't notice anything wrong with it. Seems to work OK.

Rad

[KurtHuhn]

Same here. I have a can of Zinser blonde that's about 2 years old, and a quart of Orange I mixed up about a year ago. Both are still going stronga nd don't show any strange defects.

[LexKY_Pipe]

For what purposes do you guys use the shellac?

[ArtGuy]

I use it right before the buffing and waxing... I take a 1 pound mix and dillute that even more ( 1 part shellac to 3 parts alchohol)......

apply it very quickly and wipe it off again... all in about 10 seconds or so

This spit coat gives you a little more protection against taking off too much stain with the buffer in spots and also aids in getting a smooth even coat of color on the pipe.

Being that it is only a micron thick it does not effect the smoking qualities of the pipe. It also lends a bit of protection again dirt and the like from handling.

When you read Tonnie Nielson and Bang in Pipes and Tobacco Magazine speaking of giving the pipes a very brief and very thin exposure to shellac... that is what they are talking about.

[marks]

The process that John just described works great.

[LexKY_Pipe]

Guys

That's very helpful. Thanks. :thumb:

[Jan]

Hi John,

If you are worried about life of ready mixed shellack, you can alway buy the shellack flakes and disolve them in alcohol as you need them.

I would keep about 3-4 months ready mixed shellack on hand and mix the fresh one when I use it up. The flakes will last for ever if you keep them in the sealed jar and it the dry place.

Hope this helps, Jan

www.zemanpipes.com

[NvilleDave]

Jan,
Welcome to the board! I've visited your webiste many times to admire your pipes--I'm looking forward to hearing/learning from you. :thumb:

Dave

[LexKY_Pipe]

Jan

I add my welcome too. It will be good to have your input to our discussions

[LexKY_Pipe]

Jan

I add my welcome too. It will be good to have your input to our discussions

[Jan]

Thank you all for the welcome. Allready I feel at home and I am sure I'll have a great time here...just have to make some time to explore the site and write some comments on very interesting topics...

Cheers, Jan
www.zemanpipes.com

[marks]

This topic and a post by Jack Howell on another thread (and now for the life of me, I cannot find his post) got me thinking. I use flakes, and decided to call the manufacturer and ask them this question.

They said that unmixed flakes will last indefinately provided they do not get wet, and if they clump up from humidity, just bust them up.

They also said that the shelf life was a year after being mixed. That is pretty much in line with other posts here. Different manufacturers may recommend different shelf lifes, but that is what the manufacturer of the brand I bought told me.

Have a good day

[pipeman]

Zinser claims that their shellac has a longer self life than most. Plain shellac and alcohol has a self life of about six months. It turns out shellac is an acid and over time rects with the alcohol to form an ester. This ester does not dry out to a hard film but remains tacky. The is another form of shellac - not well known, and that is water shellac. This is made by reacting sellac with a base, usually borax but ammonia also works. Water shellac keeps for decades and can be thinned for use with water, alcohol or a combination. Kremer pigments sell water to make ink (this is the traditional binder for india ink, and sellac originated in india. You can also buy a bottle of Higgens white ink and wait for the pigment to settle.
http://www.kremer-pigmente.de/intl.cata ... 2.htm#inks
You want the diluter/vehicle. It is 2-3 lb cut and cost about $4 for 3 oz. They also sell pure shellac and borax. I think this is a better alternative, especially with the dilutions most of you are using, you could cut it 10:1 with rubbing alcohol, which is a bit safer and easier to get than ure alcohol.

KL
sb in a Comoy's 296

[ArtGuy]

wow they have honest to goodness sepia ink. That is one neat site.

Thanks

[ArtGuy]

Pipeman, not to change the subject... but that is THE best source of hard to find fine art pigment and varnishes that I have ever seen.

You Rock!

[pipeman]

Actually I think they have a fair amount of stuff for the pipemaker. It is easier if you get the print catalog. For example they carry alkanet root - this is THE english red, cordovan is a cheap imitation. There prices are very good, and the quality is top notch. I think some of the reversable rtists varnishs would be better than shellac. Thhese remain soluable in odorless mineral spirits but some will resist alcohol. Most smoker clean their pipes with alcohhol and most pipemakers use an alcohol based dye. You could remove the varnish if neccessary without disturbing the stain. Zapon aka nail polish aka nitrocellolose lacquer requires solvents that will remove stain. I would cut the varnish 10:1 like shellac and put a couple of thin coats. Think about it. Peolple could remove rim tar without lightening the color of the pipe. A soiled or dented pipe could be striped without disturbing the stain. No stain will bleed into the varnish layer. I normally use an oil finish, but I may look into which varnish is best, I suspect an acrylic.
KL

[KurtHuhn]

Gah! The "V" Word!

*runs in terror*

[pipeman]

Hmmmm. Bo Nordh uses zapon. Castello and Ashton both use something thick and clear and chemically resistent on their pipes. Wax is a sealer, as is shellac, as is damar, as is zapon as acrylic etc. I use oil and wax, but I don't use stain. I still might be tempted to use something tougher for rough pipes, but I don't like shellacs soluability in alcohol - people use alcohol to clean their pipes. Even if someone used soap and water shellac is vulnerable. As a amatuer artist and former industril chemist I am familiar with the idea of using a material that is easily reversable but with a different soluability than what you are protecting. The dose is the poison and those who use thick layers of shellac have problems. If the pipe is fully cured and you have gotten the most out of the briar before coating it nothing will be lost performance wise. Its only when the wood has been full cured either by extended seasoning, oil-curing, steaming, kilning etc. that it may benefit from being porous. The only value of wax is that it rubs off or may be applied in such a thin layer as to not seal the wood. Many of the best pipes in the world have some kind of clear glossy coating - be it called shellac, varnish or wax - and there are acrylic waxes and other products that perform like a lacquer but can be sold as a wax - to keep it shiney and protect it from soil etc. I sujest that is you use a spirit stain you use something that resists alcohol but can be removed easily.
KL
nbc in a Castello liverpool (varnish removed - no difference)

[NvilleDave]

I guess I'm a "the world is flat" kinda guy... I'm sticking with what I've been doing and most other people use.