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Billiard #3
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:09 pm
by shikano53
Hi folks, here are a few pics of billiard attempt number 3
Slight forward cant, hand turned black Japanese ebonite stem with faux buffalo horn ring.
Comments and feed back welcome. Height in front of the button 0.157
Slot sanded to 600grit
The rim isn't uneven - the angle the picture was taken at makes it look uneven.
Cheers
Re: Billiard #3
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:55 pm
by JMG
I think you took a bit too much off the chin and maybe the bowl is canted just a little too much as well. The chin doesn't look as bad in the second pic as in the first pic for some reason. And your slot needs a lot of work yet. Good news is that you can still clean the slot and make it look much more finished. Your button work isn't bad could definitely be more precise/balanced...shaped better...not sure what word to use here. Find a pipe that you really like the button work of and try to copy that. On the fourth pic you can see that you took a little too much material off the right side on the bottom third. My guess is that it probably looked more balanced at first but after rusticating it you lost too much meat from that spot.
Overall, not a bad looking pipe at all. I think that visually, your proportions look pretty good. Keep going.
Re: Billiard #3
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:34 pm
by shikano53
Thanks JMG, comments will be incorporated in next iteration.
Re: Billiard #3
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:48 pm
by wdteipen
JM's critique is spot on. I like the concept of the partial rustication but the transition from rustication and smooth shouldn't interrupt the overall shape as JM pointed out. I like the proportions of this pipe and the rim doesn't look uneven to me in any of the photos.
Re: Billiard #3
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:04 am
by shikano53
Thanks Wayne.
As previously mentioned I've copy pasted both comments and printed them out and the print out will be in my garage hanging on the wall.
Re: Billiard #3
Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:37 pm
by shikano53
Re: Billiard #3
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:07 pm
by n80
shikano53 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:37 pm
I should have caught that and corrected it while I was still working on it. Unfortunately I did not take any pictures before I began the rustication while the stummel was still more or less smooth.
Apologies for the hijack, and I'd be glad to start a new thread if need be, but this brings up a point I'm struggling with. I recently made a Dublin that I was pretty happy with until I saw an asymmetry on the lower end of the bowl that I did not see until I saw it in a photo I'd taken of the finished pipe looking down the stem toward the back of the bowl.
So I'm wondering are there techniques for 'seeing' these things before the pipe is done? Wetting the unfinished briar to darken it? Holding the pipe up to a solid background (vs a cluttered shop)? Different lighting? Taking pictures? Getting a second set of eyes on it? Or does it just have to come by practice?
George
Re: Billiard #3
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:36 pm
by LatakiaLover
n80 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:07 pm
So I'm wondering are there techniques for 'seeing' these things before the pipe is done?
Yup. It's the single most important thing you can do if you're shooting to make top grade, collectible pipes (as opposed to merely tobacco access devices), in fact.
It mostly concerns shaping. Do your absolute best, then put the pipe away for a day or three. Overnight at least. Then resume work with a fresh eye. You'll see all manner of stuff you THOUGHT you'd nailed earlier, but actually didn't. Rinse & repeat until nothing sneaks past.
What's happening? It's a subconscious process similar to confirmation bias. Your eyes are tired, your hands are tired, you're eager to be finished for both $ reasons and to feel that magic of accomplishment sensation... the result? One part of your brain lies to another part. Everyone does it, no one can help it, there are no tricks to avoid it. It's a Human Thang. It isn't something you "grow past" with experience, either.
All the truly top-tier guys work this way---some of the Danes keep 20+ pipes "going" simultaneously, selecting one each morning to resume shaping work on that's been there a while, and declaring a pipe ready to finish only when nothing bad appears after being selected and inspected a few times.
Re: Billiard #3
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:12 pm
by n80
LatakiaLover wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:36 pm
What's happening? It's a subconscious process similar to confirmation bias. Your eyes are tired, your hands are tired, you're eager to be finished for both $ reasons and to feel that magic of accomplishment sensation...
You nailed it.
I've noticed, and even my wife has noticed, that when I think I'm close to being done with shaping I keep working longer (and faster) than I do at other stages just so I can have it done and see how pretty it is. My dinner would get cold because I wanted to be done. Working longer is not good because as you say, I'm tired by then, especially since all this happens after I get home from my real job. And working faster leads to mistakes.
As of now I'm not doing that anymore. I'm stopping near the end of shaping and putting it down.
It was so disappointing to see the flaw in that pipe after I thought I'd done a good job on it. I know that there will be flaws in my pipes that I will need to learn by. But even for me this mistake was a 'deal-breaker' and one that should not have been made even at this stage of my inexperience.
Thanks.
George
Re: Billiard #3
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:44 pm
by shikano53
Got to come back and make a comment here as well. I've started taking photos of what I think is the perfect finished version then downloading the photos and viewing them on the computer. You would be amazed at what you see. I often as well have my wife run her eyes over it for a second set of eyes.
Before I retired I was a piping designer using 3D modeling to build piping systems for oil, gas, and chemical plants. The guys who made the big bucks were the checkers. Every single ISO had to go through them. I played a little game in my head. Can I produce a perfect drawing first time around that will pass the checkers scrutiny? It never happened no matter how hard I tried. There was always something I missed after myself going over the ISO with what I thought was a meticulous fine toothed comb.
Back to my original post - Hey JM, in your comments about the slot did you mean I should try to re-shape the actual slot height, work the funnel more, the finish, or all three?
Thanks
Re: Billiard #3
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:49 am
by RickB
LatakiaLover wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:36 pm
n80 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:07 pm
So I'm wondering are there techniques for 'seeing' these things before the pipe is done?
Yup. It's the single most important thing you can do if you're shooting to make top grade, collectible pipes (as opposed to merely tobacco access devices), in fact.
It mostly concerns shaping. Do your absolute best, then put the pipe away for a day or three. Overnight at least. Then resume work with a fresh eye. You'll see all manner of stuff you THOUGHT you'd nailed earlier, but actually didn't. Rinse & repeat until nothing sneaks past.
What's happening? It's a subconscious process similar to confirmation bias. Your eyes are tired, your hands are tired, you're eager to be finished for both $ reasons and to feel that magic of accomplishment sensation... the result? One part of your brain lies to another part. Everyone does it, no one can help it, there are no tricks to avoid it. It's a Human Thang. It isn't something you "grow past" with experience, either.
All the truly top-tier guys work this way---some of the Danes keep 20+ pipes "going" simultaneously, selecting one each morning to resume shaping work on that's been there a while, and declaring a pipe ready to finish only when nothing bad appears after being selected and inspected a few times.
This times about a thousand. It has helped me tons and tons and tons. I've also found that when I check things like the bottom line or flow of a shape, it helps to look at it upside down as well - it seems to help short-circuit that process of your brain knowing what you'd
intended to do and adjusting he information from your eyes accordingly.
Re: Billiard #3
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:38 pm
by wdteipen
Another thing I do is close my eyes and just feel the surfaces of the pipe. Slowly spin the bowl between your fingers. Our eyes are prone to lie to us. Once developed, our sense of touch is much more truthful. You'll feel all sorts of lumps and dips and wonkiness this way.
