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Basics of staining
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:55 pm
by Adui
So, I've been applying stain between sanding steps from 320 grit all the way out to 1000, 1200, and in the case of my first 2000. (It was in the pack of paper I bought and I didn't have buffing equipment then so I figured what the heck). I have not been letting it rest overnight, Just applied the stain, let it dry (sometimes with heat gun applied to dry it) and then continuing sanding.
I've been using a stain made of food coloring, cut with Isoproyl, which I've since read can bleed onto the smoker. I'll likely be getting some Feibings brown stain before I complete my next pipe.
I've read since that I should let it rest overnight after staining, and I will add this to my process. What can I add or change to make it better?
Re: Basics of staining
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:06 pm
by UnderShade
I don’t think staining between every grade of grit is necessary. I shape and sand up to 800 grit. I then use a dark Feibings, wipe excess, sand. Then secondary color, wipe excess, then shellac, and finally buff. Feibings is alcohol based and dries quickly, so not sure if letting it sit overnight will help anything (won’t hurt). I’ve had great results with this method.
Re: Basics of staining
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:48 pm
by Flygare
I can describe my finishing when doing a regular contrast stain: (note that I live in Sweden and we use a grit-system, ISO/Fepa, that are a bit different than the american Cami.) I use alcohol based leather stains.
Sand to P600, apply dark contrast stain, let dry overnight. You can get better penetration by heating the stummel with a heat gun before staining.
Wipe away excess stain with alcohol (dna) before sanding P800. Then your paper won’t clogg up as fast.
Sand P1000, then apply top stain.
Sometimes a light sanding P1000/steel wool 0000 after that.
Buff with tripoli, white diamond, carnauba wax.
Thats a basic one, then you can use several contrast colors, stain multiple times with sanding in between. Just start experimenting!
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Re: Basics of staining
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:35 pm
by n80
I do mine like UnderShade but I do not use shellac. I have not seen much difference with letting Feibings sit but can't say definitively that it makes no difference. I may try Flygare's technique of wiping the excess with dna because just wiping it with a cloth the sandpaper does clog real fast.
See lots of videos showing folks lighting the dye on fire. Interested in hearing from the experts if this has an benefit. I did it a few times but couldn't tell a difference but again my experience is limited.
Re: Basics of staining
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:12 pm
by DocAitch
I am skeptical about heating a stummel before staining or flaming after staining.
Both heating and flaming quickly reduce the solvent which is what carries the pigment- with either method, when the solvent is used up by combustion or evaporation, that pigment is going nowhere.
Conceptually, steaming the surface prior to staining may open the wood fibers and make them more receptive to deep staining, but I haven’t done that.
DocAitch
Re: Basics of staining
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:04 pm
by Adui
In rifle stock making it is common practice to wipe the stock with a wet cloth after sanding to raise the grain thus opening up the pores. I cant remember whether this was followed by hot air drying or just letting it dry naturally before stain / finish is applied. I did this on my second carve and got a much darker (too dark) staining, but it was also pearwood and not briar as was my first.
Re: Basics of staining
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:45 pm
by UnderShade
n80 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:35 pm
I do mine like UnderShade but I do not use shellac. I have not seen much difference with letting Feibings sit but can't say definitively that it makes no difference. I may try Flygare's technique of wiping the excess with dna because just wiping it with a cloth the sandpaper does clog real fast.
See lots of videos showing folks lighting the dye on fire. Interested in hearing from the experts if this has an benefit. I did it a few times but couldn't tell a difference but again my experience is limited.
The only difference I’ve noticed is that it turns the stain a light greenish hue (which red Tripoli removes) and burns off the excess.
Re: Basics of staining
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:42 pm
by KurtHuhn
Lighting your pipe on fire really only serves convenience - the stain dries faster so you can begin sanding again. It doesn't "drive the stain into the wood" - science (and practical application) don't support that.
The basics:
- sand to 500 or 600 grit
- stain
- buff
- apply wax
As I said, those are the basics. If you want contrast stain, you need to do something more than "basic". A common way to get a "basic" contrast stain is:
- sand to 180/220
- stain and let dry
- sand to 320/360
- stain and let dry
- sand to 400/500
- stain and let dry
- sand to 600/800/1000
- stain and let dry
- buff
- apply wax
You can possibly omit some of the earlier stainings there - depends on the briar and how well it absorbs the stain (i.e. how porous it is), and the kind of sandpaper you're using.
Re: Basics of staining
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:13 am
by N. Masteller
KurtHuhn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:42 pm
Lighting your pipe on fire really only serves convenience - the stain dries faster so you can begin sanding again. It doesn't "drive the stain into the wood" - science (and practical application) don't support that.
The basics:
- sand to 500 or 600 grit
- stain
- buff
- apply wax
As I said, those are the basics. If you want contrast stain, you need to do something more than "basic". A common way to get a "basic" contrast stain is:
- sand to 180/220
- stain and let dry
- sand to 320/360
- stain and let dry
- sand to 400/500
- stain and let dry
- sand to 600/800/1000
- stain and let dry
- buff
- apply wax
You can possibly omit some of the earlier stainings there - depends on the briar and how well it absorbs the stain (i.e. how porous it is), and the kind of sandpaper you're using.
Few questions Kurt. Are you sanding by hand each time or using a machine, or both?
Re: Basics of staining
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:50 pm
by KurtHuhn
N. Masteller wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:13 am
Few questions Kurt. Are you sanding by hand each time or using a machine, or both?
Generally both - depends on the pipe. Some shapes just don't lend themselves to machine sanding.
Re: Basics of staining
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:55 am
by Sebastian Heck
KurtHuhn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:42 pm
Lighting your pipe on fire really only serves convenience - the stain dries faster so you can begin sanding again. It doesn't "drive the stain into the wood" - science (and practical application) don't support that.
The basics:
- sand to 500 or 600 grit
- stain
- buff
- apply wax
As I said, those are the basics. If you want contrast stain, you need to do something more than "basic". A common way to get a "basic" contrast stain is:
- sand to 180/220
- stain and let dry
- sand to 320/360
- stain and let dry
- sand to 400/500
- stain and let dry
- sand to 600/800/1000
- stain and let dry
- buff
- apply wax
You can possibly omit some of the earlier stainings there - depends on the briar and how well it absorbs the stain (i.e. how porous it is), and the kind of sandpaper you're using.
Kurt, at what point do you use the secondary stain? Only in the finaly step, after 1000?