Tool suggestion to work with premade stems?

alexanderfrese · Post by **alexanderfrese** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:47 pm

Still being far from making something from scratch I still wonder, what could be some steps in between.

For example the premade stems. Those with the "raw" tenons. I wonder if one can manage to use those without a lathe to get them to a desired diameter. Especially if one would use them to replace stems of broken pipes. In this case I would have to shape the tenon to a diameter given by the stummel I find, not by the drill bit I use. I would prefer this, since I could do some training on lots of estate stummels lying around.
Since those premade stems can have non-circular shapes, I wonder if a lathe still is a must for making a tenon fit with these. On the other hand the tenon has to be perfectly circular.
I have the feeling that a lathe is not really the first power tool to buy. But if I ever think about the necessary steps, I always come back to that point, look at the prices and – get stuck.

Are there any other options?

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:24 pm

Well, like several pipe makers before me, I bought a drill press first. And, like several pipe makers before me, pretty much stopped using it when I bought a lathe.

A drill press will do a lot of stuff, but a lathe will do more, and do some of the stuff a drill press does in a more efficient fashion. I'm not saying a drill press is a bad choice, far from it. What I'm getting at is that a you won't go wrong by buying a lathe - and you *MIGHT* regret not getting one when you start to feel limited by a drill press.

But, I can't stress this enough, A DRILL PRESS IS _NOT_ A BAD CHOICE AS YOUR FIRST POWER TOOL.

My opinion? Save for a lathe and get one of those. They make stem work, of the type you're describing, a cakewalk. Stem work on a drill press, at least for me, is an exercise in self flagellation. I can't imagine a more difficult operation for a drill press than trying to get stems just right.

MEPerryng · Post by **MEPerryng** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:46 pm

Alex,

I would personnally, buy a drill press first. Just my prejudice, but I find a drill press as versitile and utilitarian. But you also have to look at things as they are... a lathe is nothing more than a horizontal drill press, and a drill press is nothing more than a vertical lathe.
Consider how to use the tool. I have laid a drill press on its side, strapped it down, and nailed a few boards together to make a tool-rest. How will you use the tools you have? How do you use the tools you have? I bet you have more than you think.

Matt

MEPerryng · Post by **MEPerryng** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:54 pm

Alex,

By the way, I have chucked barstock in a drill press. I think if you are conserned with money, go with a drill press, if you are concerned with money, make a jig to hold things in a drill press.

Matt

pipemanruss · Post by **pipemanruss** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:34 am

i will agree a drill press is a igreat buy. just buy something sturdy!!!! spend the extra few bucks and get something that is a bit larger than anything you plan on doing. i think mine is 18"? this will save you alot of hasle. also when buying a vice look into the cross slide ones that gives you more freedom to move the block. just remember to move only one axis after you have drilled your first hole or your pipe willbe out of alignment. my first tool was a press and i dont regret it. i have since advanced to a lathe but still use my press for alot of things. especially since i dont turn on a lathe. just drill. a press just requires a bit more sanding in the bowl but not always. sometimes you get a bit of chatter that needs to be smoothed out. good first big tool.

alexanderfrese · Post by **alexanderfrese** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 3:22 am

Thank you all so far. Two things:

I just can not imagine the way to shape the tenon on a drill press without using some premade tools like that pimo tool. Am I wrong here?

And for the vise: I really love the idea of a self centering one. Has anyone ever used a vise that has rotational capabilities, so you can precisely adjust the angles between tob. chamber and smokeway (I forgot the english term…) by dialing on a scale? Those look pretty attractive to me, but it might be complete nonsense, since they are so expensive, that a sturdy drill press fitted with a vise like that gets into the range of a lathe…

MEPerryng · Post by **MEPerryng** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:59 am

Alex,

As Pipemanruss said, buy as large and as sturdy a model as you can afford and have room for. I don't think you will be dissappointed in choosing the press before a lathe.
I am somewhat embarrassed to confess that I have turned a tennon on a pipe I repaired by chucking the tenon material in the press, and then using a regular bastard file to cut it down to the right diameter. I then used various grits of emory cloth to smooth it. It wasn't an elegant way to do the job, but it worked beautifully.
As far as a vise goes, I would highly recommend one, but a self-centering one isn't necessary. Little bells and whistles like that are nice, and if you are willing to fork over the extra Euros to get one, go for it. But I use a little $9.95 unit I purchased from Harbor Freight tools. Sure, it requires I adjust it with every operation, but I am not under any time deadlines to produce a pipe, so I can afford the extra time to make such adjustments. I would go with a cheap but sturdy vise, unless you are a production shop. Hope this helps.

Matt

alexanderfrese · Post by **alexanderfrese** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:05 am

Matt, maybe you're right. You can spend a whole lot of money on your hobby, or you can go for something appropriate. Maybe I am a bit to german (as for the prejudice about being somewhat keen on precision). But that lathe and high precision vise thing comes close to my idea of adusting everything by some means, and if its a cross slide you can crank precisely to some fraction of 0.00something…

MEPerryng · Post by **MEPerryng** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:19 am

Alex,

Hey... don't get me wrong... I love precision too. I used to machine metals to a ten-thousandth... and of course, the more precise you cut your pipes, the less likely you are to introduce errors. But I have never machined a stummel or stem to any more than a thousandth, I am sure. I also find that working with a less precise tool really challenges you, as the maker, to use your skills and sharpen them accordingly. So no matter which way you go, I think you are in a win-win situation.

Matt

alexanderfrese · Post by **alexanderfrese** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:22 am

Matt, I am far from getting you wrong. To have any real own opinion to add here, I would need some experience of my own. The idea of a drill press only feels or seems a bit less precise to me. I like to trust my feelings, but I may be completely wrong anyway…

pipemanruss · Post by **pipemanruss** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:27 pm

the press is a bit tougher to do stems on and yes a pimo tenon turner is a great buy. i have and still use mine on occasion. as for the expencive cross slide vice i think you are looking for something too precise. i bought mine from harbor freight and it was like 40$ it has held up fine. i havent checked prices in a while but this seems about right to me.
drill press 150-200?
vise 10-40 depending on what you choose
pimo tool 60?

that is the basic set up to drill stumel and cut tenons. shouldnt cost more than 300$ if my math is correct.

i have upgraded to a lathe but still use me drill press alot good investment and great quality. lary roush uses a drill press to drill all of his pipes.

MEPerryng · Post by **MEPerryng** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:59 pm

Alex,

There is alot to be said for trusting your feelings on this. I think if you feel more comfortable using a certain tool as opposed to another, then you should. I even have a favorite chisel. It seems when you have a tool you prefer, you tend to use it more, and get further aquainted with its particular idiosyncrasies. This aspect should always be considered when you purchase a tool.
Having said that, I think a lathe is alot more fun than a drill press. I like a good lathe. A lathe can do precise work. With a lathe and a mill, your can make almost anything... and make it exactly as planned, within reason. Undesirable tools are used less because they are undesirable. A well designed tool is used because it feels good in your hand. A tool you want to use and learn about will be used and learned about.
Get what makes you comfortable.. you will use it.

Matt