Hallo!
My name is David Wagner. I am a pipemaker from Autria (www.baff.cc). I do a lot of testing to find out a good combination of airhole, tobacco chamber and bite to provide good smoking conditions.
Many pipemakers drill their pipes (without filter) in the shank about 3,7 mm and within the mouthpiece from 3 to 2 or even 1.8 millimeter so they are able to make a very thin bite (3,2 or 3 mm).
I am interested in your opinion on airhole diameter and bite. I am convinced that 1.8 or 2 mm is too small. I prefer a bite drill between 2,35 and 2,5 to provide good airflow on no filter pipes and 2,5 to 2,8 on filter pipes. The bite can then be "only" 3,5-3,8 mm. I drill the shank at least 4 mm.
What is your opinion on that topic? What is more important a very thin bite or good airflow and the possibilitiy to apply pipe cleaners easely?
Greetings from foggy Ausria!
airhole diameter : bite
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StephenDownie
- Posts: 228
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- Location: Canada
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Hi Baff,
I personally like a nice thin bit and open airway. It's a matter of widening the airway horizontally at the bit. I use a number of different methods from working the airway with a small high speed steel drill bit to using needle files and small pieces of rolled up sandpaper. In the end I usually end up with the bit around 4mm with a draw that is extremely open.
I personally like a nice thin bit and open airway. It's a matter of widening the airway horizontally at the bit. I use a number of different methods from working the airway with a small high speed steel drill bit to using needle files and small pieces of rolled up sandpaper. In the end I usually end up with the bit around 4mm with a draw that is extremely open.
Stephen Downie
www.downiepipes.com
www.downiepipes.com
Hi Baff,
I just measured my favorite bit on a Maenz pipe and the bit opening is appox.2.4mm.
The area behind the button is appox. 3.2mm and the button in the center,top to bottom is
appox. 6mm!!
It is very thin and wonderfully comfortable.I wish had the courage to make a bit that thin.
The air flow is quite good and the width of the bit at the end is appox.12mm.
I have to estimate these because I am using an Imperial straight edge and converting to metric.
( Can't find my small metric calipers! )
HTH
Best regards,
Steve
I just measured my favorite bit on a Maenz pipe and the bit opening is appox.2.4mm.
The area behind the button is appox. 3.2mm and the button in the center,top to bottom is
appox. 6mm!!
It is very thin and wonderfully comfortable.I wish had the courage to make a bit that thin.
The air flow is quite good and the width of the bit at the end is appox.12mm.
I have to estimate these because I am using an Imperial straight edge and converting to metric.
( Can't find my small metric calipers! )
HTH
Best regards,
Steve
David,
Like Stephen, I drill with a wide diameter, tapered bit into the stem, and then flatten the draught hole for the last 1 - 1 1/2 inches of the stem toward the button. Here are my standard measurements (estimated in mm)
Button height: 6.7mm
Stem Thickness (behind button): 3.5-3.7mm
Draught hole diameter (at tenon): 4mm
Approx. height of slot: 1.4-1.6mm
Many pipemakers believe that it is very important to maintain consistent air flow throughout the draught hole without narrowing. Thus, if one drills the draught hole in the shank at 4mm, you must also keep the same diameter or capacity for air flow through to the button. This helps make a drier smoke as well as an open draught.
I hope that this helps.
Jeff
Like Stephen, I drill with a wide diameter, tapered bit into the stem, and then flatten the draught hole for the last 1 - 1 1/2 inches of the stem toward the button. Here are my standard measurements (estimated in mm)
Button height: 6.7mm
Stem Thickness (behind button): 3.5-3.7mm
Draught hole diameter (at tenon): 4mm
Approx. height of slot: 1.4-1.6mm
Many pipemakers believe that it is very important to maintain consistent air flow throughout the draught hole without narrowing. Thus, if one drills the draught hole in the shank at 4mm, you must also keep the same diameter or capacity for air flow through to the button. This helps make a drier smoke as well as an open draught.
I hope that this helps.
Jeff
Steve,
I'm wondering about the 2.4mm tall slot. I think that you might be measuring from where Cornelius has rounded the corners on the slot, instead of the slot itself (an easy mistake). If your measurement is correct then there would only be .8 mm of material on the top and bottom of the bit in total, or roughly 4mm each. That is not enough to provide sufficient strength (not even with a softie!) and I know that Cornelius would not compromise his pipes in this way.
The only reason I post this is I was afraid that people might run out to the shop and ruin some pipes trying to replicate Cornelius' measurements.
By the way, the Maenz I picked up in Chicago (because you bought *my* other one from Heiko!
And for a song at that!) has an incredibly comfortable bit as well. It is by far the best that I own and one worth using as a benchmark in quality as well as measurements.
Best,
Jeff
I'm wondering about the 2.4mm tall slot. I think that you might be measuring from where Cornelius has rounded the corners on the slot, instead of the slot itself (an easy mistake). If your measurement is correct then there would only be .8 mm of material on the top and bottom of the bit in total, or roughly 4mm each. That is not enough to provide sufficient strength (not even with a softie!) and I know that Cornelius would not compromise his pipes in this way.
The only reason I post this is I was afraid that people might run out to the shop and ruin some pipes trying to replicate Cornelius' measurements.
By the way, the Maenz I picked up in Chicago (because you bought *my* other one from Heiko!
And for a song at that!) has an incredibly comfortable bit as well. It is by far the best that I own and one worth using as a benchmark in quality as well as measurements. Best,
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
I make those easy mistakes all the time . It keeps me occupied while on my way to really major F&#K UPSs.
I can say,looking at the Maenz bit from a side elevation there ain't much Ebonite there , and that's a fact.
BTW- since you got my lathe, it's only fair that I got your Maenz!
Take care Dude,
Steve
I make those easy mistakes all the time . It keeps me occupied while on my way to really major F&#K UPSs.
I can say,looking at the Maenz bit from a side elevation there ain't much Ebonite there , and that's a fact.
BTW- since you got my lathe, it's only fair that I got your Maenz!
Take care Dude,
Steve
confusion
Hallo! I think we do not ecactely know what we are discussing, so I set up a drawing. I want to discuss only section A. Relationship between airhole diameter in section A and bite thickness in section a. Maenz has very thin bites, about 3 to 3,2 Millimeters, so the drilliing can't be more than 1.8 or 2 Millimaters (only section A). I say 1.8 or 2 is too small. What is your opinion?
Drawing at http://www.baff.cc/bite.htm
Greetings
David
[/url]
Drawing at http://www.baff.cc/bite.htm
Greetings
David
[/url]
David,
That is what we have been talking about. Even though his bits and slots are small, they pass the same volume of air as the shank. This is because it has been widened to compensate for the short height. If you were to look at the stem from the top it would be similar to this (excuse the ASCII illustration):
______
|\...... /|
|.\.... /.|
|..\.. /..|
|...|.|...|
|...|.|...|
|...|.|...|
So, as the larger tapered drill bit narrows, the slot gets wider to compensate for the loss of volume.
Does that make sense?
Steve,
You're right, there isn't a lot of meat. Isn't it funny, that the better the pipe, the less material you are actually getting? So, isn't pipemaking simply styled material removal?
Jeff
That is what we have been talking about. Even though his bits and slots are small, they pass the same volume of air as the shank. This is because it has been widened to compensate for the short height. If you were to look at the stem from the top it would be similar to this (excuse the ASCII illustration):
______
|\...... /|
|.\.... /.|
|..\.. /..|
|...|.|...|
|...|.|...|
|...|.|...|
So, as the larger tapered drill bit narrows, the slot gets wider to compensate for the loss of volume.
Does that make sense?
Steve,
You're right, there isn't a lot of meat. Isn't it funny, that the better the pipe, the less material you are actually getting? So, isn't pipemaking simply styled material removal?
Jeff
airhole diameter : bite
Hallo Jeff!
I know, I do the same. but my question again: What drill diameter and what thickness of the mouthpiece? I marked the exact point with an arrow and A.
|\...... /|
|.\.... /.|
|..\.. /..|
|...|.|...|
|...|.|...| <---- A
|...|.|...|
You write: Even though his bits and slots are small, they pass the same volume of air as the shank. This is because it has been widened to compensate for the short height.
That can't be, or he drills the shank quite small too. And you have a bottle neck at the marked point (arrow) where the smoke has to accellerate.
I know exactely what you mean, because I am thinking and testing (prototypes) since many months on this topic.
I would like to make an opinion poll: What drill diamater and what thickness of the mouthpiece at the marked position <------ A ?
David
I know, I do the same. but my question again: What drill diameter and what thickness of the mouthpiece? I marked the exact point with an arrow and A.
|\...... /|
|.\.... /.|
|..\.. /..|
|...|.|...|
|...|.|...| <---- A
|...|.|...|
You write: Even though his bits and slots are small, they pass the same volume of air as the shank. This is because it has been widened to compensate for the short height.
That can't be, or he drills the shank quite small too. And you have a bottle neck at the marked point (arrow) where the smoke has to accellerate.
I know exactely what you mean, because I am thinking and testing (prototypes) since many months on this topic.
I would like to make an opinion poll: What drill diamater and what thickness of the mouthpiece at the marked position <------ A ?
David
Hi David,
Like I said above, the diameter at point A is 4mm. The slot is roughly 1.8 mm tall and extends back 1.5 inches. The volume of air will not change because there is no bottleneck. As the slot becomes narrower (as it approaches "A") it also becomes taller because the 4mm tapered drill bit extends into the slot a certain distance. Make sense?
Jeff
Like I said above, the diameter at point A is 4mm. The slot is roughly 1.8 mm tall and extends back 1.5 inches. The volume of air will not change because there is no bottleneck. As the slot becomes narrower (as it approaches "A") it also becomes taller because the 4mm tapered drill bit extends into the slot a certain distance. Make sense?
Jeff
airhole diameter : bite
Hallo Jeff!
Now I've got you. I have to think about this and do a little calculation.
Will post my result here later.
David
What about you other guys?
Now I've got you. I have to think about this and do a little calculation.
Will post my result here later.
David
What about you other guys?
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NvilleDave
- Posts: 254
- Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:00 pm
- Location: United States/Tennessee
- Contact:
airhole diameter : bite
Hallo Jeff!
You wrote: "Thus, if one drills the draught hole in the shank at 4mm, you must also keep the same diameter or capacity for air flow through to the button."
I did some calculation. And in theory it really works with the dimensions you described (You wrote: "Like I said above, the diameter at point A is 4mm. The slot is roughly 1.8 mm tall and extends back 1.5 inches")
Very nice result . But I did a few times the following. I make a test pipe (too many spots, cracks ...). with the following dimensions: slot 2 mm, extends back 1 inch and point A is 3 mm. Than I smoke it, after a while I make the slot 2,35 or 2,5 mm, and I like it more, like Stephen I suggest.
Does someone of you have the same experience?
David
You wrote: "Thus, if one drills the draught hole in the shank at 4mm, you must also keep the same diameter or capacity for air flow through to the button."
I did some calculation. And in theory it really works with the dimensions you described (You wrote: "Like I said above, the diameter at point A is 4mm. The slot is roughly 1.8 mm tall and extends back 1.5 inches")
Very nice result . But I did a few times the following. I make a test pipe (too many spots, cracks ...). with the following dimensions: slot 2 mm, extends back 1 inch and point A is 3 mm. Than I smoke it, after a while I make the slot 2,35 or 2,5 mm, and I like it more, like Stephen I suggest.
Does someone of you have the same experience?
David
@Dave:
It's really very easy to build a wind tunnel. Here's what you do:
Get one of those huge Hollywood movie making fans. Get some transparent plastic ducting, about 6' diameter to match the fan. Build a really big fire in your living room fireplace, being sure to add green leaves and unseasoned wood to create plenty of smoke. Empty the house of wife, kids, cats, dogs, gerbils, etc. Leave the canary in the the living room to indicate lethal levels of carbon-something-or-other. Place pipe stem in wind tunnel. Crank up the fan and record the results in a professional, technical manner.
Seriously yours,
Frank.
P.S. You may want to get one of those WWI gas masks from your local military surplus store.
P.P.S. Sorry guys, I just had to respond to Dave with a touch of levity.
It's really very easy to build a wind tunnel. Here's what you do:
Get one of those huge Hollywood movie making fans. Get some transparent plastic ducting, about 6' diameter to match the fan. Build a really big fire in your living room fireplace, being sure to add green leaves and unseasoned wood to create plenty of smoke. Empty the house of wife, kids, cats, dogs, gerbils, etc. Leave the canary in the the living room to indicate lethal levels of carbon-something-or-other. Place pipe stem in wind tunnel. Crank up the fan and record the results in a professional, technical manner.
Seriously yours,
Frank.
P.S. You may want to get one of those WWI gas masks from your local military surplus store.
P.P.S. Sorry guys, I just had to respond to Dave with a touch of levity.
Ah...no.Hi David,
Like I said above, the diameter at point A is 4mm. The slot is roughly 1.8 mm tall and extends back 1.5 inches. The volume of air will not change because there is no bottleneck. As the slot becomes narrower (as it approaches "A") it also becomes taller because the 4mm tapered drill bit extends into the slot a certain distance. Make sense?
Jeff
If I understand this all correctly, which is highly unlikly, It seems the thing to do is make the drilled hole (at the smallest point) have the same open volume as the thinner,flattened bit area. This is to maintain the same velocity AND volume of air flow?
Whew, I'm more the empirical experimentation type,myself.
BTW- what about the volumetric mass of the tobacco chamber vs.the diameter and length of the draught hole?
How far should smoke ideally travel from the bottom of the tobacco chamber to the end of the bit opening to maximize dryness and coolness?
... Not that I've EVER had a problem with being cool.
Best,
Steve
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Mrpickwick
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:00 pm
- Location: Niigata City Japan
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Air hole diameters
Hi Everybody
I've just enjoyed reading all the comments re air hole diameters and as I'm just about to start to drilling my own stems I spent a while taking the measurements from several of my pipes , these pipes are a collection of different brands that were bought from Yahoo auctions Japan recently. There were many different sizes of air holes & bit heights , but for the air hole the pipes that smoke the best have a 3.5mm air hole into the stummel which also continues half way down the stem then it goes down to 2.5mm with a slot opening of 1.5mm. These measurements enable you to make a nice thin bit as the 1.5mm slot at the bit extends back about 10mm. I don't know what the perfect air hole diameter is as everybody seems to have a different idea on what is best for them, all I want to do is to make comfortable stems and pipes that smoke well.
Don
spedenpipes.com
Niigata Japan
I've just enjoyed reading all the comments re air hole diameters and as I'm just about to start to drilling my own stems I spent a while taking the measurements from several of my pipes , these pipes are a collection of different brands that were bought from Yahoo auctions Japan recently. There were many different sizes of air holes & bit heights , but for the air hole the pipes that smoke the best have a 3.5mm air hole into the stummel which also continues half way down the stem then it goes down to 2.5mm with a slot opening of 1.5mm. These measurements enable you to make a nice thin bit as the 1.5mm slot at the bit extends back about 10mm. I don't know what the perfect air hole diameter is as everybody seems to have a different idea on what is best for them, all I want to do is to make comfortable stems and pipes that smoke well.
Don
spedenpipes.com
Niigata Japan
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NvilleDave
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Frank thanks for bringing me back to the seriousness of this thread. I just chucked another tire into the fireplace (for volumetric smoke)--I've got the soundtrack to "Blackhawk Down" blasting on the stereo (to set the mood) and I'm fixing to hit the start button on the big fan. I'll let you know how it works out.Frank wrote:@Dave:
P.P.S. Sorry guys, I just had to respond to Dave with a touch of levity.
Dave
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NvilleDave
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Tyler
- Site Supporter
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- Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:00 pm
- Location: Farmersville, TX
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For those of you that ae able to get a slit cut that is less that 2mm tall, how do you do it? The smallest drill bits I have found locally (haven't tried MSC or the like yet) are 1/16". When I do the "smearing" inevitably I break a lot of those bits. If I get smaller, I can only assume the problem will get worse. Also, the slit ends up a little taller than the nominal 1/16" of the bit.
I can't cut thin slits!!
Do you guys have a source for smaller bits, and if so, do you break a lot of them?
Tyler (The Heavy-handed)
I can't cut thin slits!!
Do you guys have a source for smaller bits, and if so, do you break a lot of them?
Tyler (The Heavy-handed)
Tyler Lane Pipes
http://www.tylerlanepipes.com
http://www.tylerlanepipes.com