It seems that this topic of how to apply a caranuba finish is one that y'all might be tired of answering. But I just cant seem to get it right. Every pipe that i wax appears uniformly shiny at first but after handling for even a few minutes it becomes apparent that i have a very uneven coat. It is patchy, like I got some areas and not others.
I use the 6" Pimo sewn muslin buff for applying wax, and then I VERY gently polish it with a 6" unsewn flannel buff. I don't exactly know the speed of my motor. I use a regular 1/4 horse motor upon which i mounted a rheostat switch. Whenever I am buffing (especially at the final stages) i turn the speed of the motor down as low as it will go without shutting off. I am under the impression that i have achieved 1300 rpms.
I try my best to be systematic in the application, and go over areas only once when applying the initial wax. Am i simply not being systematic enough?
Thanks, Jedidiah
Struggle with even coat of caranuba
sanding
I think that my sanding is pretty good. Right now i am only sanding to 600, but I spend at least a couple of hours sanding the stummel. And I Buff quite thoroughly.
I am wondering if i am overloading the wax tho. I ususally touch the caranuba to the wheel just until i smell it.
Is it possible that i am wearing the caranuba off later on when i am doing the final buff?
Does anybody have any suggestions for how to systematically make sure that you are covering all the surfaces of the stummel equally?
I am wondering if i am overloading the wax tho. I ususally touch the caranuba to the wheel just until i smell it.
Is it possible that i am wearing the caranuba off later on when i am doing the final buff?
Does anybody have any suggestions for how to systematically make sure that you are covering all the surfaces of the stummel equally?
I don't know. I got two wheels from somewhere that I can't remember and put them together on the arbor to make a wider buff. About 11-1200 Rpms and a light touch gives a great shine.Jedidah wrote:Flannel wheel... sounds good. Is the thickness of the wheel important? There was some discussion about 20 ply or 40 ply. Is it noticably better with 40?
Heavy touch on the carnauba to load the wheel then a light touch on the pipe.
Rad
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KurtHuhn
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I'll second Rad's suggestion. A light touch on the pipe will produce a much more even shine. If you use too heavy a hand, you can burn off wax that you already put on, and cause an uneven coat.
Also, like Rad, I tend to apply wax at around 1200RPM. That seems to be the sweet spot, at least for me. For final buff, I bring it all the way down to about 800 RPM, and that step seems to be the most important in creating an even shine. And I only do final buff after the wax has cooled - probably 15 minutes after applying the wax.
Your mileage may vary, but you might give that a shot and see what happens.
Also, like Rad, I tend to apply wax at around 1200RPM. That seems to be the sweet spot, at least for me. For final buff, I bring it all the way down to about 800 RPM, and that step seems to be the most important in creating an even shine. And I only do final buff after the wax has cooled - probably 15 minutes after applying the wax.
Your mileage may vary, but you might give that a shot and see what happens.
Hello,
just from a newbie...
I think the steps before waxing are rather important! You can use the finest sand to polish your stained workpiece, but if you don't use a little bit water before the last sanding, you can't get a "mirroplated" (I don't know the right word) finish. Only this finishes give a stable shiny surface.
The reason is, that wood has little spilky hairs, wich would be bound to the surface by staining and/or treatment with shellack, etc. After buffing with wax you will bound this hairs again, but after a few "grabs" on the pipe the hairs "stay up" again and the surface feels rough and weak. If you are ready with sanding the stain and perhaps shellack, whipe off the surface a few times with a not too wet tissue, or even better use watersteam, to let the hairs stay up. Than sand again with finest sandingpaper (min. 1200) or even better - my experience - use steel-wool 000! Buff only when you feel a realy clogged surface!
For better results it is recommanded to buff a few times with wax (5 x) and then polish without wax. The use of the best carnauba (brighter carnauba is better than yellow!) will bring better results for longer shiny pipes and it's not even too expensive...
Greetings,
Heinz_D
just from a newbie...
I think the steps before waxing are rather important! You can use the finest sand to polish your stained workpiece, but if you don't use a little bit water before the last sanding, you can't get a "mirroplated" (I don't know the right word) finish. Only this finishes give a stable shiny surface.
The reason is, that wood has little spilky hairs, wich would be bound to the surface by staining and/or treatment with shellack, etc. After buffing with wax you will bound this hairs again, but after a few "grabs" on the pipe the hairs "stay up" again and the surface feels rough and weak. If you are ready with sanding the stain and perhaps shellack, whipe off the surface a few times with a not too wet tissue, or even better use watersteam, to let the hairs stay up. Than sand again with finest sandingpaper (min. 1200) or even better - my experience - use steel-wool 000! Buff only when you feel a realy clogged surface!
For better results it is recommanded to buff a few times with wax (5 x) and then polish without wax. The use of the best carnauba (brighter carnauba is better than yellow!) will bring better results for longer shiny pipes and it's not even too expensive...
Greetings,
Heinz_D
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alexanderfrese
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Didn't we discuss somwhere earlier that going really fine with the sanding grits is a must? I tend to go all the way through to steelwool, until it already has some sort of "matte" shine. If I am that patient…
Alexander Frese
www.quarum.de
www.quarum.de
I don't think that superfine sanding is a must. I sand my pipes to 600 and then finish. Rainer Barbi told us in Chicago last year that he sands to only 320. But i think he uses a much heavier coat of shellac on his pipes.alexanderfrese wrote:Didn't we discuss somwhere earlier that going really fine with the sanding grits is a must? I tend to go all the way through to steelwool, until it already has some sort of "matte" shine. If I am that patient…
As long as the sanding is done so that no prior scratches are left after each grit, 600 will give a mirror shine when finished.
Rad
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alexanderfrese
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On a german pipe forum Rainer has suggested the use of something I cannot translate into english. He suggested to use some sanding filler first and some sort of "ballenmattierung" which I recently tried. The filler as well as the second stuff is not very ecological. The filler and the "ballenmattierung" is based on some dilution of "nitrocellulose" in some thinner. It is applied like shellac, with a tissue that is folded (which we call a "ballen"). Whilst rubbing the stuff onto the wood it dries out completely and gives a high gloss layer finish. The process seems to quote the way of applicating shellac, so I think it was invented within the search for a way to get rid of the disadvantages of shellac using chemical products. Information on the product and the limited product info I could find online state sanding is only necessary to 180, though this surely applies to general woodworking settings.
It smells rather chemically, reminding me of some fresh bought wood products - though not like the real cheap ones that stink like making you sick real soon. The smell disappears within 5 or 6 days.
I have only tested one restored estate stummel so far, and that stummel was sanded really fine before, and I still want to test some buffing and wax coating on it, though the shine is already there. I will have to test that on a rather rough sanded bowl in the future.
Finish is really hard, glossy, feels somewhat different from a polished and waxed surface in my hands. Though I made a blind test with my lady, who did not feel the difference at all, but found out, that the bowl treated with the "Mattierung" makes little squeaky noises when you rub on it, which the waxed one did not.
I have the strong believe that this procedure might really disturb the strong, almost religious belief, that pipes should not be coated. Though to my technical knowledge, the "breathing" pipe wood is some sort of romantical hoax, at least as bruyere is concerned. All this was discussed widely, and we all know those pictures of splitted pipe bowls to show the amount of darkening from the bowl into the wood, which never reaches the outer edge…
Besides this technical knowledge, there still is the perception of the public, who will consider the use of varnish of any sort as a clear "don't".
I tried to find some links to datatsheets from the manufacturer, but even the german website does not list all products, and the english version even less, maybe due to export limitations, who knows…
It smells rather chemically, reminding me of some fresh bought wood products - though not like the real cheap ones that stink like making you sick real soon. The smell disappears within 5 or 6 days.
I have only tested one restored estate stummel so far, and that stummel was sanded really fine before, and I still want to test some buffing and wax coating on it, though the shine is already there. I will have to test that on a rather rough sanded bowl in the future.
Finish is really hard, glossy, feels somewhat different from a polished and waxed surface in my hands. Though I made a blind test with my lady, who did not feel the difference at all, but found out, that the bowl treated with the "Mattierung" makes little squeaky noises when you rub on it, which the waxed one did not.
I have the strong believe that this procedure might really disturb the strong, almost religious belief, that pipes should not be coated. Though to my technical knowledge, the "breathing" pipe wood is some sort of romantical hoax, at least as bruyere is concerned. All this was discussed widely, and we all know those pictures of splitted pipe bowls to show the amount of darkening from the bowl into the wood, which never reaches the outer edge…
Besides this technical knowledge, there still is the perception of the public, who will consider the use of varnish of any sort as a clear "don't".
I tried to find some links to datatsheets from the manufacturer, but even the german website does not list all products, and the english version even less, maybe due to export limitations, who knows…
Alexander Frese
www.quarum.de
www.quarum.de
Have a look at this: http://www.cellulosics.de/alexanderfrese wrote:I tried to find some links to datatsheets from the manufacturer, but even the german website does not list all products, and the english version even less, maybe due to export limitations, who knows…
It's a German site from Bayer, but I can imagine, that ther is also an English site anywhere!
Greetings
Heinz_D
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alexanderfrese
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Something like this (in English):
http://www.cellulosics.de/ce/cecms.nsf/id/Lacke2_de_EN
In fact this whole website has an English version:
http://www.cellulosics.de/ce/cecms.nsf/id/HOME_EN
Though it is the supllier of the basic "nitrocellulose". Some woodworker might step in, please?
BTW Heinz, did you read Rainer's comment about using that stuff, too?
http://www.cellulosics.de/ce/cecms.nsf/id/Lacke2_de_EN
In fact this whole website has an English version:
http://www.cellulosics.de/ce/cecms.nsf/id/HOME_EN
Though it is the supllier of the basic "nitrocellulose". Some woodworker might step in, please?
BTW Heinz, did you read Rainer's comment about using that stuff, too?
Alexander Frese
www.quarum.de
www.quarum.de
Hi Alex,alexanderfrese wrote:BTW Heinz, did you read Rainer's comment about using that stuff, too?
if you mean the article at the P&T forum, yes... I'm active in this forum too, because it's the best German forum I know - even if ther are sometimes a few misunderstandings... (look the thread with Rainer's comments about the finish!)
P.S.: I'm living just one and a half hour from Bochum: Stolberg, near Aachen... Perhaps we can meet sometimes at any smokermeeting at Peter Heinrichs...
Greetings,
Heinz_D
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alexanderfrese
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Heinz,
I know about these misunderstandings. I like that forum, since it's the only real considerable german language pipe focussed forum. I don't enjoy it too much, since they are all so german.
I posted there about that and decided to leave it that way…
:dunno:
I know about these misunderstandings. I like that forum, since it's the only real considerable german language pipe focussed forum. I don't enjoy it too much, since they are all so german.
I posted there about that and decided to leave it that way…
:dunno:
Alexander Frese
www.quarum.de
www.quarum.de
Hi Alex,
I would'nt think too much about stupid postings! Ther are a lot of quiet good postings and I ignore the other ones as good as possible... I'm happy that ther are quiet a lot of "profis" with many useful hints and tips - all the younger folks are people who only want to tell the world, that they are still alive... I'm mostly amused about their postings and I don't matter the content of their writings...
Just to get out all the usefull things is worth enough to read and sometimes write at P&T, isn't it?
But you're absolutly right: It's very German...
Cu,
Heinz
I would'nt think too much about stupid postings! Ther are a lot of quiet good postings and I ignore the other ones as good as possible... I'm happy that ther are quiet a lot of "profis" with many useful hints and tips - all the younger folks are people who only want to tell the world, that they are still alive... I'm mostly amused about their postings and I don't matter the content of their writings...
Just to get out all the usefull things is worth enough to read and sometimes write at P&T, isn't it?
But you're absolutly right: It's very German...
Cu,
Heinz