On Stems: To cut or not to cut...

[Tyler]

There has been a lively thread on another forum that I frequent involving a debate on what constitutes a high-grade pipe, what constitutes a hand-made pipe, etc., etc. It is a relatively cyclical conversation that pops up every year or so, and is enjoyable every time, IMO. This one offered a few opinions that might be of special interest to a group of pipemakers (especially newbies). The item of discussion that I thought most interesting for this forum involved the the value of hand cut stems.

To try and paraphrase, a few folks on the other board said that a pipe without a handcut stem was essentially a second-class pipe, no matter what.

Thoughts?

If you do not handcut stems, do you ever intend to? If you do handcut your stems, why?

Are these guys nuts, or do you agree?

Tyler

[JSPipes]

I disagree with them.

For starters, I handcut a stem when the shape that I'm working on needs it. If I don't need to, I won't.

However, on the stock type stems, I open the airways, work out the funnel, reshape the button, and thin them out as much as I dare. The end result will smoke exactly the same as one that I handcut.

Frankly, I don't see the difference. Neither did some collectors that looked at some pipes in LA. None of them realized they were looking at stock bits (on some pipes) until I spoke up.

I need to qualify this a little. The material in stock vulcanite stems is usually of an inferior grade to ebonite or cumberland rod. As a result, if I am making a pipe with a rubber stem, it'll be handcut. Lucite, not if I can find a stock stem that's what I need.

Joel

[StephenDownie]

As long as the premade stem is made from high quality material and the maker has drilled and channeled it properly then I wouldn't have a problem with a premade stem. The only problem I can see is I've never found any premades - especially the Vulcanite ones- that are as good a quality as Ebonite rod. Tried from both PIMO and Mark Tinsky and they always seemed to oxidise more quickly. Nothing against either of these suppliers, but for me rod is the way to go with Vulcanite / Ebonite. In my experience making a stem from scratch is nearly as time intensive as shaping a premade one so it's not like it's a huge time savings either. Getting back to the question though I would not call a pipe with a premade stem second class, but I do have a preference for hand made stems.

[ArtGuy]

Molded stems are not as high of quality material as the German ebonite rod, and in my experience they do not smoke as nicely. Thus pipes made with them are not as nice as they could be. Because of this, I hand cut all of my stems. Also, knowing that my pipes are entirely made by hand from raw materials gives me greater pride in my work.

I do not think that molded stems are entirely bad and they certainly have their uses. I think they are a good way for those wrestling with the mechanics of getting a good fit and developing their shaping technique to hone in on just those areas. I can certainly understand someone wanting to learn a craft by focusing on one aspect of it at a time. (After all, that is how I started). I also can see a need for using them to keep costs down when making lower priced pipes in larger quantities that are aimed at a wider audience. Nice pipes can certainly be made with them.

However, I think that presenting yourself as a boutique carver (defined as one who produces relatively few pipes, that are higher priced and aimed at a selective audience) while using molded stems would be a bit dubious.

[mahaffy]

I'm pretty much in the hand-cut side, but like so many newbies, once I'd decided to make pipes, I bought darned-near one of every shape PIMO had to offer --- so there they are, waiting to be used. And the minimum order at the only source I've found for cumberland is a hundred bucks. I can probably find ebonite rod someplace without the "minimum order" business, but I have my heart set on cumberland. In the meantime, I'll use the molded stems. . . probably modified to use delrin inserts.

[Skip]

Quite some time back a customer contacted me about a custom made pipe. We talked about all the usual issues and then he asked about the stem. At that time I did not cut any of my stems by hand. I told him that I could not see a big deal about them and felt like that was just a lot of extra cost. His reply was that all of the serious pipe makers hand cut the stems and if I ever wanted to command higher prices for my pipes I would need to follow suit. He did not require that his pipe have a hand cut stem but I decided to give it a shot. From that day on all of my stems were hand made. I even made a lucite churchwarden stem for a former employee.
When you cut your own stems you never fail to have the exact look that you need. I have thousands of stems that came with my pipe making equipment and along with them about 1500 stummels. Still it seems that I never had just the right stem. I have used many of both in the past but I do feel that it is about pride in what you do.
I prefer to take no short cuts and think that customers are willing to pay for the effort.

That is my story and I am sticking to it.

Skip Elliott

[Heinz_D]

For the entired question: I disagree too! I've a lot of experience with premade stems. Befor I decided to try my own pipes I restaurated about more than 30 Pipes and sometimes I needed to reconstruct the stems. Therefor I started using premade stems with quiet good results and I couldn't observe any remarkable differences in smoking pipes between premade and later handcut stems.

I don't have any experience yet with material from US-dealers, but the German dealer "DanPipe" has excellent premade stems - ebonite and acryl - in many shapes. Of course it is lot enough work to get the shapes I wont to, but in my mind the quality is good.

One reason for me to handcut stems for my selfmade pipes is, that I want to do the whole work by myself... Another is, that ther often isn't enough material for special shapes.

Greetings,
Heinz_D

[marks]

Not that there is anything necessarily wrong with either method, but I prefer to hand cut the stem. I want the pipe I make to be created by me, and I wouldn't consider selling a pipe where I did not hand cut the stem.

[bvartist]

I agree with marks. I have just recently started hand cutting stems and used premades before that. When I started pipemaking I intended to cut my own stems as soon as I was comfortable with the shaping and drilling of the stummel. I want to hand cut the stem so all of the pipe is constructed by me. I don't see anything "wrong" with selling pipes with premade stems. I just prefer everything on my handmade pipes to be handmade by me.

David

[achduliebe]

I have only worked with premade stems. However, when I do begin to offer my pipes up to the public they will only have hand cut stems. For me, it just seems the only way to go when you are going to be in the market as a carver who makes a small amount of high quality pipes each year.

[hazmat]

I've yet to hand-cut a stem, but have every intention of doing so as I progress. I was doing this for two years and then out of it for two years, so I'm a bit behind the curve. At this point, I just want to get my stummel drilling and shaping down as well as the fit and feel of the stem. If it isn't hand-cut at this point, so be it. It's more important to me that I'm ready to take that next step when I'm comfortable with it rather than because I feel there's a demand for it. Eventually I'll be there.. for now, re-shaping a pre-fab is much less time-consuming than screwing up three hand-cuts before I finally have the fit, feel and look I'm shooting for. Just my $.02..

[ArtGuy]

Hazmat, I think that is a good way to do it. Get the shaping and drilling of the stummel down until you can consistently make a decent smoker... then take on hand cutting stems. I even think it is ok to sell pipes at that stage. Personally I put the limit at 200.00. I did not go above that until I was handcutting stems and consistently making good smokers that way.

[hazmat]

Ya know, John.. I think it's really the only way to go when you're first getting into it. There's SO MUCH involved in such a small thing as a pipe, and if you don't drill properly, consistently, what in the world would be the point of learning to hand-cut stems? For myself, I know I can do it. I've taken a simple round taper and completely changed its profile with some filing, sanding, reaming, etc.. so I know I can make one. I just don't see the point in getting lost in that if I'm not yet drilling properly, shaping properly, finishing properly... beyond that, to start, not many people have all the tools they need to hand-cut a stem. Hand-cut stems, when I first got into this, was the very last thing I had on my list of "things to learn"...

Matt

[ArtGuy]

Actually I started to hand cut my stems once Tyler told me that he would no longer return my calls until I started to do so

[KurtHuhn]

In response to the original assertion of second-class pipes:
I almost agree. But let me put it into context. pre-made stems, at least the ones available in the US, tend to be made of a material that is not of as high a quality as german vulcanite rod. If you use a molded stem on something, you need to realize that some folks are simply not going to buy it for that reason. Some folks are very particular about that.

That said (again, in context), I do use them on my most inexpensive grade - and only because I can prep a factory stem in about 10 minutes instead of an hour or so for a hand cut stem. But, given the price point of those pipes, and the fact that I'm honest about the stem, I don't view it as a problem. For a pipe costing about $100, you're simply not going to find a long-time pipe maker creating hand cut stems.

I don't know that I would call them "second class" pipes, unless we're prepared to call all pipes using pre-made stems second class (including some of the high quality factory pipes out there).

And also, we should take assertions like that with a grain of salt. The number of people who are very vocal about such things make up an extreme minority of pipe smokers out there. They are a very vocal minority, but a minority nonetheless. My neighbor doesn't give a rat's pitoot wether the stem is handcut or not. All he cares about is wether he's going to get a consistently good smoker from me when he wanders over and grabs from the latest batch of Countryman grades.

And there's the real question, I think. Can you take a pre-made stem and modify it to make it comfortable and smoke well? If so, very few people will care that you only spent 10 minutes instead of a couple hours on it - as long as your price reflects it.

[bscofield]

I do not cut my stems yet, though I plan to. I think that the difference is in comfort only. But that's why I plan to switch. With the engineering of the prefab stems I don't feel I can get a bit down to the size I'd like and be safe. If I were to engineer the pipe from start to finish, I believe I can.

John C., what about prefabs is it that makes you think they actualy alter the smoking qualities of pipes?

[ArtGuy]

I just noticed a dramatic improvement in the draw when I started handmaking my stems. The customers who bought them said the same thing. It could have been that I was just better at making pipes then too, who knows, but it made me a believer.

[marks]

Kurt makes an excellent point. If you are selling pipes, it is to a large degree about the price point you are trying to hit. There are buyers at all price points, and it is up to each maker to determine the price point he or she is going after and make their pipes to that market.

Some customers demand crisp, clean lines, impeccable fit and finish, and hand cut stems. They are also willing to pay for the time and effort it takes to produce such a product.

Other customes are looking primarily for quality smoking pipes at a reasonable price, and they may be less concerned about the particulars of whether the stem is hand cut or not, as long as the pipe smokes well.

Some makers do a very good job of segregating their brands and hit multiple price points, although that can be a difficult thing to accomplish.

Now, for those new carvers that are still working with premade stems while they work through their personal learning curves. Nothing wrong with that. We each have to work at our own speed, and no one can tell you what your speed is but you.

And John, I agree with you regarding the draw you get with a handcut stem. With a little practice, you can get exactly the draw you want, time after time.

This has been a very interesting topic. Leave it to Tyler to provoke so much thought. My head hurts (and I know before you say it, it is killing you ).

[JSPipes]

Yup, the draw that comes on the prefabs isn't very good. However, it can be opened up and made to smoke exactly the same as a handcut. That's what I've been doing with them and I've been very happy with the results.

Joel

[Tyler]

<snip>

I don't know that I would call them "second class" pipes, unless we're prepared to call all pipes using pre-made stems second class (including some of the high quality factory pipes out there).

<snip>

FWIW, "second class" was my term that I believe characterized the comments on the other board. I did not mean it as a derisive term, but in exactly the way you went on to characterize your lower grade of pipes. Some folks view preformed stems as only acceptable on a lower grade, "second class" of pipe. "Second class" not as an insulting term, but a literal description.

Tyler