Opinions on Pricing/Grading

[bvartist]

Hi All,

Tyler's thread on handcutting/prefab stems really got me thinking more about pricing and what goes into it. As a newbie getting more comfortable with the idea of marketing a few pipes, I am interested in hearing everybody's opinion on what the differences are between a $100 pipe and a $500 pipe. How much of a factor are things like grain structure, pits, the type of stem used, fit and finish, smooth, rusticated, or sandblasted, etc? Is name recognition a really big price point? How about the use of delrin tenons? Should a newbie start selling at a lower price and raise the prices after more exposure? Or start with a price they think the pipe is worth? Is the time involved to craft a pipe any consideration at all? (I hope not, I'd have to sell mine in the $1000 range and I know they won't sell for that!)

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated!
David

[Nick]

I'm no pro, but I think a new pipe maker has to start low and work up. Name recognition is very important. Second only to quality to me. I love to buy stuff from new makers, but the price has to be right.

[ArtGuy]

My suggestion is to keep making them until you feel you are at the same level of craftmanship as others within the price range you are targeting. A great way to determine this is to go to shows and examine pipes first hand. I would then start off at that price range.

I would also suggest having 3 price structures. I was listening to a couple of guys on a radio show who give advice on marketing. This guy called up who does oragami sculptures with styrofoam cups (of all things, apparently they were really impressive) and was asking questions about where to price them at an upcoming art show.

Neither marketing guy had specific prices for him, but they both agreed without question that a 3 tier price structure is best. According to them if you have 3 distinct ranges (low, middle and high) most of your sales will occur in your middle to high range. That seems to make sense to me. Time for me to move quickly to developing a line of sandblasts :thumb:

[ArtGuy]

As far as grading goes, I would hold off on that. You will find that your pipes will improve greatly from year to year when you are first starting out. I would grade them by putting them in one of the 3 price structures. Otherwise you run the risk of stamping something your ultra high bananna grade and 6 months down the road you are making pipes far superior to it.

[KurtHuhn]

I'll second John's thoughts about holding off on grading. Get to the point where you can actually create three distinct grades, and then worry about how to place them. You actually need to put a lot of thought into what the grades mean as well - they can't be entirely subjective based on grain or percieved quality, and they can't be entirely based on tangible things like the use of ivory or bamboo.

Also, name recognition is hugely important. You can't sell a $500 pipe if nobody knows your name. Look at what Kent Rasmussen was able to do once people knew his name. You've got to try and work up to that point.

[bvartist]

All great information guys!

But really not the opinions I was looking for. Forgive me if I wasn't clear in my initial post. I am from Arkansas and we're said to be a little behind the level of sophistication of the rest of the country(Hillbillies I think is the term!)

What I am really looking for is everybody's opinion on what pipes fit into the 3 tiers of pricing. Example, bottom tier-rustication, top tier flawless straight grain, second tier everything else. And opinions on how things like pits and flaws, the type of stem material used, and tenon materials used affect the price of the pipe.

Oh yeah, for name recognition, I thought I'd start stamping my pipes like Tyler, since he doesn't sell anymore maybe i can get away with it! and have recognition at the same time???

[hazmat]

If you get Pipes and Tobaccos Magazine, Trever Talbert did an article in one of the back issues in which he layed out what *generally*(I say this and asterisk it because so much of this isn't hard fact) determines grades of pipes, from the bottom to the top. I can't think of which one it's in, but it's definitely filled with good info and I believe hits what you're looking for.

If you can't find it on your own, I'll try to look for it tonight and see if I can't get you a copy.

[KurtHuhn]

Well, I'll give you my system and you can take it from there:

Countryman: modified pre-molded stems, rusticated or single-stage sandblast, rarely any decorative accents (like stem rings or shank caps).

Cityman: hand cut stems, smooth or multi-stage sandblast, possibly decorative accents.

Nobleman: hand cut stems, flawless and stunning grain (both cross and straight), almost always decorative accents and "extras".

Note that I mention nothing about tenon material, time spent making a pipe, stem material (only the manufacture method), the origin of the briar, or craftsmanship. All of these things should be fairly consistent from grade to grade - save for time spent making a given pipe.

[ArtGuy]

I would set it up based on finish

Higher Price: Smooth
Mid Range: Partial Rustication / Sandblast
Low Range: Full Rustication

Try to have enough of a spread that your price ranges do not end up competing with each other.

[bvartist]

Thanks guys, most helpful... And I think I understand more of what you all were saying. Now the hard part, trying to structure my pipe making around a set of "guidelines" I can come up with. You'd think being an artist, photographer and fly rod crafter I'd have a better grasp of marketing, but its something I suck at. Can't ever settle on a reasonable pricing strategy. Thanks for the help.

Hazmat, no, I don't have an issue of P&T with the article you talked about. And the best I can do on the P&T website is an old issue (1999 I think) that had an article sounding similar. However it is sold out! Got a couple sources so maybe I can find it locally. Sounds like something I'd be interested in reading.

David

[hazmat]

Not so much the pricing/grading question ... more along the lines of how did you come up with the names for your category gradings?? I'm just curious for those of you that have a grading system like this. What was your "inspiration" so to speak?

[Nate]

Ahh, a great post about thoughts on 'grading' pipes. The methods listed here have come up often in conversations about pipe sales and grading. Another good read for some of the newer makers (like myself). Very informative.