Spoon Bits

BDP · Post by **BDP** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:38 pm

John,

I'm sorry- I think I created the wrong impression when I said that Todd was right- what I meant by that was if one was to go out and try to get one of these made for themselves it might cost that figure. I did not mean that was a possibility of the actual cost for these- which is the whole point of going through this Chinese fire drill- to keep the cost within reason for a high-quality tool that properly used will raise the quality and creativity of American-Made pipes.

Brad

Tano · Post by **Tano** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:41 pm

The only other size I would be interested is the 7/8.

Briarfox · Post by **Briarfox** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:00 pm

Well Being very new to pipe making, this looks like something that I shouldn't pass up. I'm not at the skill where these would be needed but I like to look toward the future. I can put down the ~$250 but what do you experienced guys think? Is this worth it, or should someone inexperienced like me wait?

Post by **Tyler** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:59 pm

Briarfox wrote:Well Being very new to pipe making, this looks like something that I shouldn't pass up. I'm not at the skill where these would be needed but I like to look toward the future. I can put down the ~$250 but what do you experienced guys think? Is this worth it, or should someone inexperienced like me wait?

Wait.

I plan on picking up a set in about six months when half these guys figure this method is not for them!

In reading through this thread it is clear that several newbies are unclear as to what these bits are for. THESE ARE NOT "NORMAL" PIPE MAKING BITS. YOU DO NOT NEED THESE! These bits are for a wonderful method of pipe making that is quite advanced, namely, shaping a block BEFORE drilling any holes, then drill the shaped pipe BY HAND. The tobacco chamber requires a special bit to do this well, and THIS IS THE BIT. If you are unfamiliar with this method and are trying to break into pipe making on a budget, this is NOT the way to do it. If you still find yourself referencing my website for the methods of pipe making I teach, then you do not need these bits. Once you are to the point of seeing all of my mistakes and wanting to rewrite my page for me, THEN you will be wanting these bits.

Brad, I hope these comments don't cost you any sales. (I doubt they will.) Thanks for offering these bits to the pipe making community. I only wish I could join in the purchase.

Tyler

BDP · Post by **BDP** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:17 pm

Tyler,

This is a different way to make a pipe- I don't know if it is any more "advanced" than drilling first and shaping second. It certainly opens up more possibilities than drilling first. Yes, there will be a learning curve to this method, but there is a learning curve on both approaches...which method would you want to spend your time learning? I would suggest the one which offers the most possibilities for freedom of creativity...

Brad

Post by **Tyler** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:30 pm

BDP wrote:Tyler,

This is a different way to make a pipe- I don't know if it is any more "advanced" than drilling first and shaping second. It certainly opens up more possibilities than drilling first. Yes, there will be a learning curve to this method, but there is a learning curve on both approaches...which method would you want to spend your time learning? I would suggest the one which offers the most possibilities for freedom of creativity...

Brad

True, it is likely no harder to learn this method from a more standard drill-first method.

Perhaps it is best to say that at this point in time, I only know of advanced makers that use this method. If you are just starting out and do not have a working knowledge of how to make a pipe, you will not find much help with this method. Not enough people use it. My page, this forum, the Pimo book, none of these will help you much with this method. On this forum there are maybe three guys that use this method, so you would be beholden to them to get questions answered. In five years after this process becomes more mainstream (thanks likely to this forum and your current run of bits), I'd say this would be as easy a way to learn as any. At this point though, there is very little by way of help in this method. Unless you already know what you are doing, you are going to have a VERY tough time. Additionally, you basically HAVE to have a lathe to use this method. It continues to surprise me the number of makers that do not use a lathe. For newbies though, not having a lathe is the norm, so that is why I say it is a more advanced method. (Perhaps errantly so.)

Tyler

Post by **Tyler** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:45 pm

Brad (and board),

BTW, my suggestion to Briarfox to wait on this purchase is based on several back-channel discussions he and I have been having. As you can see he only has a few posts. Those came because I pointed him here after answering a few questions for him. It is only because I am somewhat familiar with his needs that I suggested to him to wait. That is not a generic WAIT statement to relatively new makers. I hope my suggestion did not offend you or affect your ability to make a living. I am a huge Brad Pohlman fan, and have no desire to influence your livelihood negatively.

My generic statement about these bits is this:

This offer is likely the most influential offer ever made on this forum. It has more potential to improve the quality of pipes on this board than anything previously offered. This method of pipe making is substantially better than the drill-first method. Those that opt to adopt the SF/DS method will make more smooth, wonderfully grained pipes then ever before, and the bits will pay for themselves in short order (if you sell your pipes obviously). If you are serious about pipe making, and want to become as good as you possibly can, you are an IDIOT if you ignore this method, and by extension Brad's offer.

Tyler

BDP · Post by **BDP** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:52 pm

Tyler,

There is not enough money in this to affect me one way or the other, believe me... Actually, there is only the possibility of a down-side to this, and that is why I am being so persnickety about the committments and the final price.

Brad

Brad

Post by **Tyler** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:53 pm

BDP wrote:Tyler,

There is not enough money in this to affect me one way or the other, believe me...

Brad

I do!

How true this is with pipe making in general!

Tyler

P.S. I edited my previous post while you were posting to me. I made a general comment in it that you might appreciate.

souljer · Post by **souljer** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:26 pm

Tyler wrote: In reading through this thread it is clear that several newbies are unclear as to what these bits are for. THESE ARE NOT "NORMAL" PIPE MAKING BITS. YOU DO NOT NEED THESE! ... If you are unfamiliar with this method and are trying to break into pipe making on a budget, this is NOT the way to do it. If you still find yourself referencing my website for the methods of pipe making I teach, then you do not need these bits. Once you are to the point of seeing all of my mistakes and wanting to rewrite my page for me, THEN you will be wanting these bits.
Tyler

Every time I see posts like you are talking about and I feel the concern and fear towards buying I feel like writing something similar to what you wrote. You don't have to buy these bits. If you are unsure, you probably should not buy these bits.

I've been sf/ds -shaping first/drilling second- for a few months now working on the few bowls I've had time too. However I've always been pretty lucky with spotting and following the grain, probably due to my visual arts background and training.

The first pipe I made and posted here (I don't know if the pictures are still around) had nice symmetrical grain and was drilled first then shaped. There's another pipe I'm almost finished with that is done the same and the grain is centered too. Also drilled first, but I reshaped the block to center it before drilling; is that cheating? I did a few like that as I thought was needed while evolving towards shaping first I guess.

None of the above work was done with spoon bits like these being offered -not even the shaped first/drilled second bowls. Mostly normal bits and I used some wide tapered spiral bits that were in the pipe-maker's shop where I was being taught. I then clean up the bowl contour with other bits and dremel cutters and grinders.

So you in fact don't need these to make nice pipes. It's, as Brad said, just another way of doing things. If you're perfectly happy with the methods you are using, there's probably little reason to change those methods. If you are not happy and want to try this drilling first method these bits that Brad is offering would be a big help. It's just a matter of how much time and money you want to invest.

Now I feel I should mention how this or that bowl was made when I post pictures.

...yes with the bowls I've been very fortunate, now stems, man that's a whole other sad, sad, sad story...!

Tano · Post by **Tano** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:14 pm

I'm stepping up to buy these bits because I'm thinking forward. However, I would hope that some knowledgeable pipemakers would offer advice on how to use them SAFELY, otherwise Tyler will be buying them at bargain prices sooner than he thinks.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:13 am

I want to buy a set of Spork bits!

Hehehehe! Thanks for doing this Brad. It really seems like its been alot of hassle. I appreciate the time and effort you're putting into this.

jeff · Post by **jeff** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:21 pm

Tyler wrote:...Additionally, you basically HAVE to have a lathe to use this method. It continues to surprise me the number of makers that do not use a lathe. For newbies though, not having a lathe is the norm...
Tyler

One other point to consider is that you have to have a pretty large lathe for this. That means that all of the Taig and Sherline users probably will not have much luck with this. I began drilling by hand on a Micromark 7x14 and it was quite a struggle. The bits caused enough friction that the lathe's safety features would occasionally stop the motor mid-drill. Now I use a Jet 9x20 with no problems at all. Part of the early problems were due to the poor quality of my bits--something that will not be a concern with Brad's bits. But, other problems were linked to the lower power of the lathe.

Just a word of caution for those who might buy them, receive them, and then be unable to use them until you upgrade your machinery.

Best,

Jeff

BDP · Post by **BDP** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:09 am

Everyone,

OK, the price will be $265 for the set of three, and the 7/8ths will be $90 for those who want one. Here is who I have listed for an order:
Souljer
CKR
Kurt Huhn w/Tyler
JBacon
Dan Gabrieli
Nick
Lannes Johnson
Skip Elliott
Tano
Scott Thile
Steve Morrisette
Dan Gallaher
Byron Harwood
Mark Spell
Bob Gilbert
Jeff Gracik
Stephen Downie
Brooklyn Pipes
John Crosby
Please anyone who wants the 7/8ths, let me know. I would like to be paid via Paypal (no credit cards). Is anyone unable to use Paypal? Please let me know. I would like to get rolling on this. At some point I will be needing mailing addresses and email addresses for my spreadsheet, so I can keep everything organized. Any questions, let me know.

Brad

sethile · Post by **sethile** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:56 am

BDP wrote: ....OK, the price will be $265 for the set of three...
I would like to be paid via Paypal (no credit cards).

That's great news, Brad! Let us know your paypal E-mail address and I'll fire it off directly. I'm good for the basic set of three. Does the $265 include shipping or should we add something for that? BTW, Most of us will have a verified shipping address associated with the PayPal payment E-mail you receive.

I'm really excited about these bits! I have a pipe sketched out on a nice looking block that would be perfect for the shape first method, but I may be better off practicing with them on some of my lessor briar first

Hurray! Happy times ahead! Thanks very much for doing this for us, Brad

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:36 am

Yep, gimme a paypal address and I'll send the cash today. Can't wait!

Tano · Post by **Tano** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:05 pm

Brad,
I'm ready, let me know the next step.

staffwalker · Post by **staffwalker** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:49 am

Hi Brad, I would like the three peice set plus the 7/8th single. How do you want to do this? Can you send me a checkout recipt total for PP or your email address so I can pay you. My email: <staffwalker at yahoo dot com> If you create a bill through PayPal my shipping address is on file there and will be forwarded to you when I pay.

Thanks,
bob gilbert

jeff · Post by **jeff** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:01 am

Guys,

Send your paypal payments to bradpohlmann <at> dslextreme.com

Also, Brad did not include shipping costs into his price. I sent him $280. $15 should cover USPS Priority shipping to anywhere in the US with insurance. Let's not bother him with working out individual shipping prices to each of our addresses and just call $15 good for shipping. $280 shipped is a pretty amazing price on one of these bits, so this price for three is unheard of.

Best to all,

Jeff

Leus · Post by **Leus** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:14 pm

Ouch. I was on vacation, and miss this thread. *Sigh.*

I guess I'll have to pull a Talbert and wait for a while

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