Scraping stems

hazmat · Post by **hazmat** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:12 pm

I searched for this a number of different ways, but couldn't seem to find it. I understand the process completely, just curious about the tool used. In the posts I've read a "razor sharp knife" has been the suggested tool. My question is, would a razor sharp razor work just as well? Thanks!

Matt

RadDavis · Post by **RadDavis** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:46 pm

I've never scraped a stem.

After I've got it shaped with a file, I sand it with 120, 220, 320, 600 and 1000. Then I'm done.

BTW, I don't go near the button end with 120 grit. That's just for getting the right contours at the shank end to about the middle of the stem.

Rad

ArtGuy · Post by **ArtGuy** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:55 pm

I use what is called a "chip knife" but you could make a suitable knife out of a file for that ever popular "prison shank" look.

Letter E is what I use:

geigerpipes · Post by **geigerpipes** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:59 pm

Any little sharp knife will do the most important it that it is thick enough not to
"wiggle " from the craping and small enough to fit different uses..a razor is to thin

scraping the stem can really speed up sanding as properly used and sharpened it can take out all the scraches from a rough file quickly and you can then start your sanding at 240

We use the smallest carving knife commonly used i think it has a 2,5 cm long blade

kbadkar · Post by **kbadkar** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:08 pm

Nice tips! I'll try out a little knifing on my next stem.

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:01 pm

I'm with Rad, I don't scrape. I never got the hang of it, and using a fine cut lathe file is just as quick.

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:39 pm

Kurt, excuse my ignorance, but what is the difference between a lathe file & a regular file or a pillar file?

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:06 pm

Basically, lathe files are:
- edge safe
- fast material removal
- produce a smooth surface

Mill files, on the other hand:
- not edge safe
- very fast material removal
- produce a rough surface

Also, Mill files can be used in draw filing operations, while lathe files don't lend themselves well to that (at least in my experience).

hazmat · Post by **hazmat** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:22 am

As always, good information. Thanks guys!

TreverT · Post by **TreverT** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:39 am

I've never done any scraping either. I tried it a couple of times with some of my carving knives, but I just seemed to gouge and chip the material, so obviously the must be some art to it. I just use files.

hazmat · Post by **hazmat** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:51 am

I'm still on the fence as to whether or not I even want to try it. I've always seemed to get a decent finish with files and sandpaper, no need to add another step if it doesn't add anything but more work. We'll see what happens.

Post by **Tyler** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:01 am

hazmat wrote:I'm still on the fence as to whether or not I even want to try it. I've always seemed to get a decent finish with files and sandpaper, no need to add another step if it doesn't add anything but more work. We'll see what happens.

The idea is it takes less work.

You simple hold the knife perpendicular to the surface you are scraping, and scrape. I don't know why some are having trouble with the process. It makes quick work of removing file marks, and lets me start the sanding at 220 and doesn't leave a lot of work at 220.

Tyler

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:29 pm

When I tried it a couple years back, the process actually left *more* marks than a fine-cut file. Maybe my file-work is just as developed as some folks' knife-work?

Post by **Tyler** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:26 am

KurtHuhn wrote:When I tried it a couple years back, the process actually left *more* marks than a fine-cut file. Maybe my file-work is just as developed as some folks' knife-work?

It's unclear to me how scraping could actually leave marks, but I trust that it has for some.

That said, I'd bet that variances in file types and quality has a lot to do with the different results people are seeing directly off the file.

bscofield · Post by **bscofield** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:43 pm

Tyler wrote:
hazmat wrote:I'm still on the fence as to whether or not I even want to try it. I've always seemed to get a decent finish with files and sandpaper, no need to add another step if it doesn't add anything but more work. We'll see what happens.
The idea is it takes less work.

You simple hold the knife perpendicular to the surface you are scraping, and scrape. I don't know why some are having trouble with the process. It makes quick work of removing file marks, and lets me start the sanding at 220 and doesn't leave a lot of work at 220.

Tyler

The most accelerated "boost" I've got in shaping and finishing stems was from the use of "spongy" fingernal files, like the one's on Kurt's photo essay regarding hand cut stems. They can be found easily in grits up to 600, probably higher than that if someone had a good speciality shop around. Those will make QUICK work of file marks.

hazmat · Post by **hazmat** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:47 pm

It's also worlds of fun trying to explain to the woman selling them in the specialty manicure/pedicure shop why you need so many of these in so many different grits... she didn't seem to like me using the word "grit" in her shop, either.

TreverT · Post by **TreverT** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:15 pm

Well, see, sometimes it's the simplest things! When I'd tried scraping before, I was always naturally assuming it was scraping like whittling; that is to say, with the edge at an angle. Holding it perpendicular works great. I just finished my first scraped stem and it came out quite well. Very handy for careful shaping and adjustments.

ArtGuy · Post by **ArtGuy** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:35 pm

TreverT wrote:Well, see, sometimes it's the simplest things! When I'd tried scraping before, I was always naturally assuming it was scraping like whittling; that is to say, with the edge at an angle. Holding it perpendicular works great. I just finished my first scraped stem and it came out quite well. Very handy for careful shaping and adjustments.

I thought the same thing. Tyler told me about that tip 2 years ago or more and I dismissed it because I thought whittling a stem would take forever. Then my buddy Adam demonstrated it to me and I was sold. Should have listend to Tyler years ago but you never know with that guy.

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:32 pm

Ditto Ben & Kurt's use of the padded fingernail emory boards.

The dark blue side takes out the coarse filing scratch marks, the light blue side usually takes it to the point where a couple of grits of polishing compound produce a mirror finish on stems.

staffwalker · Post by **staffwalker** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:27 pm

I learned the use of emery boards (fingernail files) while living in Spain when I used to buy antique wall clocks and repair them for resale. When I started learning to make pipes I turned to them again. My question though, how do you guys tell the 'grit' size?

I have bought several hundred over the years and have yet to find one with the grit stamped. They usually say 'fine', 'extra fine', etc. I can estimate the grit but never know if I guess it right. Do you actually fine them with the 'grit' size marked? If so which store?

bob gilbert