Shank/bowl junction definition

hazmat · Post by **hazmat** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:37 am

Anyone have any helpful suggestions for making crisp, clean junctions between the bowl and the shank? I personally have a tendency to make this area not quite as sharp and neat as it should be on some pipes. On one I currently have on the bench I recognized the problem and have been working it out with various small files and pieces of sandpaper wrapped around strange and obscure items to work the area but the going is terribly slow and tedious. I'm not trying to rush it but at the same time it occurred to me that there's got to be a better way of working on this spot, be it better planning ahead or a different procedure after the fact. Thanks!

Matt

Post by **Tyler** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:05 am

How do you do the majority of your shaping? Sanding disc? Sanding belt? Dremel?

I have found that on a sanding disc I can do a decent job that only requires a little refining with a chainsaw file and some 220. (I don't like to wrap sandpaper around objects, I can't make that work well.)

Tyler

hazmat · Post by **hazmat** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:58 pm

I do the majority of shaping with sanding discs. I have the foam-backed hook-and-loop set they offer at Woodcraft along with the "wave" sanding discs. I can't seem to get into the junction with these, though, without nicking some other portion of the pipe I don't want to touch. As I'm typing I'm thinking of this little bit of a disc I have, maybe 2" in diameter with a very, very thin outside edge that may be the answer. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find it.

Along with these discs, I have a 5" 3M rubber backing pad and a couple of gator-grit flexible plastic backing pads. I'm going to have to have a look at them this evening and do some playing around to see what might work best. You're absolutely right about wrapping sandpaper around things. It's frustrating me more than solving anything.

pierredekat · Post by **pierredekat** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:08 pm

I think a Dremel-type tool pays for itself on the very first pipe. Seriously.

Now, mine's not an actual Dremel; I'm using a Rotozip with a Dremel-type flexshaft attachment. But same basic deal.

And I've found the DRE117 bit makes short-work out of that transition. It's 1/4 inch diameter (1/8 inch radius) at its widest, and it tapers down to approximately 5/32 diameter (5/64 radius) towards the nose.

You do have to use a sharp bit and work kindof rhythmically to avoid burning the wood. But what used to take me 2-3 hours of filing now takes me about 10-15 minutes with the rotary tool.

After that, I do the sandpaper-and-round-thingy to finish up.

And I just tried the DRE115 bit on my last stem with surprisingly good results. You wouldn't want to get down too close with one of these little rotary tools, but I just figured out they can speed up the rough-in considerably on stems, as well.

Cheers.

hazmat · Post by **hazmat** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:25 pm

I do have a dremel with flex shaft. I'll have to see if I have any bits that might fit the bill in there. I normally don't have this problem with round or oval-shanked pipes. This one I'm working on is square-shanked with a round bowl and it's giving me fits.

edit: Didn't realize you had a link in there, Pierre, but once I did and clicked I saw the bit you're referring to and I do have one of those puppies.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:46 am

Files and sand paper. If you're not selling, then who cares how long it takes?

hazmat · Post by **hazmat** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:16 am

Nick wrote:Files and sand paper. If you're not selling, then who cares how long it takes?

Selling or not, I still like to use efficient means of getting from point A to point B. I used to make most of my pipes with only files, sandpaper and a dremel. I also learned how to ride a bike with training wheels, but at some point I wanted to get a big-boy bike, so I had to progress

Files and sandpaper always get used, but if I have better means of completing a task with something that gets me to the same end in less time, I'd be a fool not to do so so long as the end result looks proper, no?

bvartist · Post by **bvartist** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:07 am

I use the Wave sanding discs and disc holder/backing pads. What I do to get into the shank/bowl junction is put the sanding disc on the disc holder without a backing pad, and I cut off the "wave" (the little sanding flaps) of the disc. The holder I have is beveled about 30 degrees on the back and allows easy reach to most areas of the junction. Abralon discs help out too. They are soft and flexible and easily conform to the shape of the stummel.

David

hazmat · Post by **hazmat** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:49 pm

bvartist wrote:I use the Wave sanding discs and disc holder/backing pads. What I do to get into the shank/bowl junction is put the sanding disc on the disc holder without a backing pad, and I cut off the "wave" (the little sanding flaps) of the disc. The holder I have is beveled about 30 degrees on the back and allows easy reach to most areas of the junction. Abralon discs help out too. They are soft and flexible and easily conform to the shape of the stummel.

David

I thought about doing this. That bevel is exactly what I need, I think, to get in there. As much as I love this disc holder, those "waves" on the abrasive discs are a real pain in the rear end. I normally cut them off, too. They just get in the way. I'm going Abralon hunting this weekend. Woodcraft is a dangerous place for me to shop

bvartist · Post by **bvartist** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:44 pm

A "trick" I do with the wave discs. I put the discs on the hard backing pad and trim off the waves. Then I take the disc off the backing pad and attach it directly to the holder, the result is about 1/16 - 1/8" of the disc that hangs over the edge of the holder. It gives me a very flexible edge thats great for sanding in tight areas like the shank/bowl junction.

David

jbacon · Post by **jbacon** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:38 pm

hi david

thanks for the tips

did you get your sanding discs and sanding pads from www.woodturnerscatalog.com

jim

bvartist · Post by **bvartist** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:53 pm

Hi Jim,

I bought my Wave sanding set from Woodcraft. http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=3740 The 3" bowl sanding set is fairly inexpensive compared to buying the individual components. After buying the set, I've bought replacement wave discs and Abralon discs from wood turners. Woodcraft doesn't carry the Abralon discs online.

David

Heinz_D · Post by **Heinz_D** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:33 pm

As posted in "My visit at Rainer Barbis Shop", I'm looking forward to build a belt sander! I think ther is nothing more efficient to do any sanding: Bowl, shank and even stem.

It'll take a long time to get it working well, but once you've learned to lead the belt as you want, it seems to be magic, what you can do with it...

I just ordered some parts for it and when I've finished building it, I'll post some pics...

bscofield · Post by **bscofield** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:42 pm

Matt, is your sanding disc tapered?

bscofield · Post by **bscofield** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:46 pm

Matt, I have a sanding disc like the one in this harbor freight page. Mind you, not the device, just the pad that you can see inserted into it:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... umber=4196

I chuck that up in my lathe. The one I have is cheap and has a bad wobble, I'll be replacing it soon. But, that's beside the point. See how it comes out to a point? That point fits down into the TIGHTEST of shank/stummel junctions.

hazmat · Post by **hazmat** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:28 am

@David

I used just the backing pad and that was the answer. Not to mention paying more attention to what I was doing. That seems to help most everything right off the bat

I cut the discs to the size of the backing pad. I had cut them before to the size of the attachment pads and that caused me problems. The hanging edge of the disc was able to fold back too easily and sand parts I didn't want touched. Thanks for the suggestion!

@Ben

Yeah, the backing disc for the pads I have is tapered, much the same as the pad on the pneumatic sander you posted. That's what I used to get into those little spots last night and it worked like a charm as noted above. Does Harbor Frieght sell just the sanding pads for those things? I can't seem to find them on their site.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:35 am

hazmat wrote: I also learned how to ride a bike with training wheels, but at some point I wanted to get a big-boy bike, so I had to progress Files and sandpaper always get used, but if I have better means of completing a task with something that gets me to the same end in less time, I'd be a fool not to do so so long as the end result looks proper, no?

Ouch! Called less than a "big boy" and a fool in the same post. Nice!

hazmat · Post by **hazmat** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:40 am

Nick wrote:
hazmat wrote: I also learned how to ride a bike with training wheels, but at some point I wanted to get a big-boy bike, so I had to progress Files and sandpaper always get used, but if I have better means of completing a task with something that gets me to the same end in less time, I'd be a fool not to do so so long as the end result looks proper, no?
Ouch! Called less than a "big boy" and a fool in the same post. Nice!

lol..no no Nick.. not at all. Sorry if it sounded that way, most certainly didn't mean it to, hence the wink

My apologies!

bvartist · Post by **bvartist** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:47 am

hazmat wrote:@David

I used just the backing pad and that was the answer. Not to mention paying more attention to what I was doing. That seems to help most everything right off the bat

Cool! Glad my suggestion helped!

I can also see benefits in using a belt sander as Heinz suggested. I'm thinking about trying to convert my old bench grinder to run two belts. A one inch on one side and 2" on the other.

hazmat · Post by **hazmat** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:07 am

I agree on the belt sander. I would love to have a nice stand-alone unit for that purpose but I'm not even sure where to start to get one together. I have a belt/disc combo right now, but I don't use the belt for much of anything. It seems to be too aggressive, whether that is because of the grit or the speed, I'm not sure.