Buffing Compounds, etc

hazmat · Post by **hazmat** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:40 pm

I've been doing all of my buffing in the following order:

1. brown tripoli
2. white diamond
3. carnauba
4. plain flannel buff

I was looking at the buffing compounds on grizzly.com today and they have all sorts of "tweener" compounds.. super-fine tan, fine yellow, etc. Any of you guys use any of these? I've never had a problem with the current procedure I use, just curious as to whether there's any benefit to using these "ultra-fine-tannish-brownish-white-diamond-super-luster" compounds or if it's just extra time wasted? Any thoughts? Additionally, what is a decent compound to use for cleaning up older stems?

kbadkar · Post by **kbadkar** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:52 pm

If you like your present compound results, then I wouldn't mess with the other ones. Each new compound means another dedicated buff and another step. Why bother? Speaking of other compounds - for badly oxidized stems I use a more aggressive compound, dark grey emery or emory... not sure on the spelling.

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:31 am

I used to use black emery as the first step in buffing stems, but I decided to pay attention during sanding, and it became unnecessary. However, I do still use it as the first compound for buffing oxidized stems from estate pipes that I aqcuire.

hazmat · Post by **hazmat** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:15 am

Is there any particular brand of tripoli/white diamond compounds that offer better results than others? Menzerna is one name I see talked about quite a bit. The stuff I have now I picked up at Woodcraft, so I think I can safely assume I have quality stuff, but one never know. Guess I'll have to run out there this weekend and see if they carry black emory.

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:38 am

I use the Menzerna H0815 (very fine) for pre-carnauba buffing stage. Slightly more expensive than the generic tripolis, but I prefer it for non-metal buffing, rather than the white stainless steel buffing compound.

Just out of curiosity, I bought some Fabulustre (somewhat pricey) to see if it would give a better shine to stems. I did not notice any difference in the final finish from the Menzerna.

In my ongoing quest for the ultimate shine, I even bought some Novus. Not really much use if you have a buffer & compound. The #2 is useful for hand removing scratches from CD's & DVD's, though.

Briarfox · Post by **Briarfox** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:11 am

I seem to have problems with white diamond. It gets into small areas especially rusticated areas and its a real pain to get out. Anyone else have this issue?

Also what is the purpose of using brown trip then white diamond? What do they each do differently?

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:28 am

A lot of folks don't bother to buff rusticated areas. I have the same problem with compound sticking in the rusticated/blasted areas. I manage to get most of it out with an old toothbrush. The Dremel soft bristle wheel is also useful for that purpose.

The brown tripoli is just an extra step before the final compound step. It's a matter of choice whether to use it or not. It usually depends on how fine your last sandpaper grit is prior to beginning the buffing stage. It's slightly coarser than the white.

As I mentioned above, I prefer Menzerna for stems & wood. In my opinion, the white is best suited for hard metals like steel, but still suitable for wood and stems if you prefer it.

Briarfox · Post by **Briarfox** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:24 am

Thanks for all the help frank.

Briarfox · Post by **Briarfox** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:40 am

Well I finished another pipe and am back here trying to find out what I did wrong.

I buff in this order.
1. brown tripoli
2. white diamond
3. carnauba

After the WD it is very very shinny and so good looking!. Then I hit it with carnuba with my lathe going as fast as it can. It shines it up some but it either cakes in one area in blotches if I press to hard or i can't tell it's on.

Maybe it's my process or maybe I need an extra flannel buff at the end?

What buffing wheel and speed do you guys use for the carnuba?

Also is there better carnuba out there? Mine was from PIMO and it looks a lot more dark yellow then the carnuba at woodcraft.

http://woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=750

Thanks guys

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:28 pm

When I apply carnuba, it's usually at about 1800 RPM with a 8-inch buff if the air is cool, or 1200 RPM if the air is warm. I also use a very light touch, only applying a little bit of carnuba to the buff at a time. When applying to the pipe, a light touch rules the day, and I work slowly and methodically. I probably go over the pipe 4 or 5 times to get the finish where I want it. This might be the one area where I haven't found a faster way to do something. It ends up taking me several minutes to apply the carnuba in multiple very thin coats, working slowly and steadily.

Spinning the buff too fast, or pressing the pipe into the buff too hard, will result in the blochiness you describe.

I've used both the PIMO and Woodcraft carnuba. They're slightly different colors, but give the same results in my experience.

Briarfox · Post by **Briarfox** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:15 pm

Well I don't think my lathe spins over 1600rpm . I think that I may be pressing to hard. I really push it in there. I'll try a lighter touch. Thanks kurt.

hazmat · Post by **hazmat** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:32 pm

A final, clean flannel buff goes a long way to spreading out the wax well and adding that final glossy shine. I do this buff with a very light touch and just take my time making sure I get an even, smooth finish.

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:18 pm

I forgot that part. Yeah, a soft flannel buff spun at a slower speed will go a long way toward getting a good shine once the carnuba is evenly applied. Mine is a 6" buff and I spin it around 900 RPM.

During final buffing, keep in mind that you're not trying to shine wood, you're trying to shine the thin layer of carnuba that's been applied.

Briarfox · Post by **Briarfox** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:16 pm

Well I still can't get this part of pipe making down and it's getting rather frustrating. It may be that I do not have an extra flanal buff to buff the wax and I'll be getting one in the near future but the wax just won't stay.

I buff with the wax until I can see what looks like small dots of wax on the pipe. If I press to hard it is noticeably caked on and doesn't look good. I've taken my time and keep going over the pipe. I slow the buff down trying to spread the wax more. After I'm done I'll use a cloth to lightly rub the thick parts out so it doesn't look blotchy.

However after one solid smoke it will loose it's luster. There will be a few small patches that look all shiny and properly waxed. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong and Why I can't keep the whole pipe buffed.

I originally thought that it was my buffing speed. My metal lathe turns on it's fastest at around 1500rpm. But after hearing you guys talk about blotchyness being from pushing to hard or turning the buff to fast, I no longer think the speed is an issue.

Does the flannel buff really make that much of a difference? Coulkd that be my whole problem?

JHowell · Post by **JHowell** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:29 pm

Yes, it does. You can't get a smooth surface on wax with wax. I put it on with a wheel, and shine it by hand with an old T-shirt.

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:42 pm

Briarfox wrote:Does the flannel buff really make that much of a difference? Coulkd that be my whole problem?

1500 rpm speed is fine. I use Tyler's method. You apply the carnauba to the loose unstitched wheel, but you just use the tips of the wheel with light pressure to apply the wax to your pipe. Then do what Jack does, shine it up by hand with a soft cloth.

Incidently, a carnauba wax finish doesn't last very long. That's why some folks use a shellac finish before waxing.

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:16 pm

Frank wrote:Incidently, a carnauba wax finish doesn't last very long. That's why some folks use a shellac finish before waxing.

Also, blotchiness can come from incomplete sanding. The stummel has to be sanded very well in order for the wax to produce the best shine.

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:42 pm

KurtHuhn wrote:Also, blotchiness can come from incomplete sanding. The stummel has to be sanded very well in order for the wax to produce the best shine.

Speaking of which, to what grit do you take your final sanding?

LatakiaLover · Post by **LatakiaLover** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:07 pm

Gotta go with Kurt here. There is a place in the PipeWorld for shellac/sanding sealers (mostly to control stain bleeding), but far too often when makers see how easy it is to Make Stuff All Shiny with it, it is used as a shortcut.

Properly done, wood itself---with NO coatings---can be made to shine like glass. A wax finish on such a surface is so thin it hardly exists. (There's little for it to grab, so very little adheres to the pipe) Such finishes not only last a very long time, but have a less artificial quality than any clear coat. It's much more warm and organic, imo. Less stiction when handled.

I recall reading on Trever's blog that he's come to the same conclusion.

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:46 pm

Frank wrote: Speaking of which, to what grit do you take your final sanding?

Well, I hesitate to say, because a lot of folks misunderstand when I say it. However, I'm going to anyway.

I sand to 2000 grit.

You may all cry, swoon, or swell in anger as your mood dictates.

Go ahead, I'll wait for you to recover...

...

...

Now that *that* is over with, let me explain. Remember in another thread I said that I spent the better part of two years coming up with a set of procedures and tools that lets me finish a pipe very quickly? Well, this is part of it. I don't hand sand anything anymore. I use a homebrew setup that allows me to use cushioned abrasives from Abralon mounted on an electric motor. Anything above about 500 grit takes a grand total of 30 to 45 seconds contact time for each grit, and each grit takes me about 5 seconds to change. If I had to do it by hand, I'd probably stop at 600, but I can see the benefit in power sanding to 2000 very clearly.

I've been told by more than one maker that it's a waste of my time. And I have no doubt that they can get excellent results, using their own processes that they've spent a long time developing, by stopping at 600. But this process works like gangbusters for me, so I continue to use it.