http://cgi.ebay.com/12X24-Clausing-Meta ... dZViewItem
Chagrin Falls, OH. Hard to know what it'll go for, but if it were around a grand I'd rather have it than a Jet 920. Not really a candidate for disassembly and transport in an Explorer, but would be possible to move with a Uhaul motorcycle trailer.
More lathes
Man, 11" Logans coming out of the woodwork in CA.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Used-Logan-Metal-La ... dZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/Used-Logan-Metal-La ... dZViewItem
I find this statement in the auction somewhat amusing: "If you are not able to make the alternate pickup day, an additional pickup charge (minimum $50) and/or per diem storage fees may be assessed", considering the thing must have been sitting around weathering away unused & gathering rust for quite some time.JHowell wrote:Man, 11" Logans coming out of the woodwork in CA.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Used-Logan-Metal-La ... dZViewItem
Regards,
Frank.
------------------
Grouch Happens!
People usually get the gods they deserve - Terry Pratchett
Frank.
------------------
Grouch Happens!
People usually get the gods they deserve - Terry Pratchett
Hi,
I did not notice that the auction ends on the 18th, but the inspection is on the 20th. Bizarre.
I hate everything about these guys. They seem like such assholes, I would not buy from them even if I wanted the lathe.
I hate auctions that have a bunch of hoops for the buyer to jump through and if you don't they threaten with some ebay action, negative feedback or in this case fees. Everything is dealt with from a negative, almost hostile, point of view.
No Thanks.
I did not notice that the auction ends on the 18th, but the inspection is on the 20th. Bizarre.
I hate everything about these guys. They seem like such assholes, I would not buy from them even if I wanted the lathe.
I hate auctions that have a bunch of hoops for the buyer to jump through and if you don't they threaten with some ebay action, negative feedback or in this case fees. Everything is dealt with from a negative, almost hostile, point of view.
No Thanks.
www.TotemStar.com - Some of my pipe related art
I think you're reading too much into it. Legalistic, yes, hostile not necessarily. The $50 feel is a right they reserve if you don't show up to pick up the widget when you said you would. True, the windows seem a bit narrow, but you never know. I tend to look for off-putting things about auctions that don't affect the actual deal. Other people might probably have the "who wants to deal with these assholes" reaction, I think it's just business and I've dealt with plenty of assholes, so long as they hold up their end of the deal it's water off a duck's back. If it were near me, I'd try to get a phone number or just email them to point out that the inspection is after the auction, that I'm interested in the lathe but would like to know that I'm dealing with reasonable people. Can I look at it? Frankly, If I could get it for $200 and I could get to the place I can see enough from the pictures.
So JH, what do you see in the pictures? Any potential problem areas that you can discern? If they were reasonable enough to allow an inspection, what would you look for? I laugh when I see a guy kick a tire on a used car, as if that will tell them something about it. I'm afraid I'd walk around the thing kicking it's tires. I doubt I'd be able to plug it in and give her a test drive. I know that I should check alignment with the head and tail stock. I know I should check the ways for wear. What else? Is there a mental checklist that you go through?
Jack, I thought you said you played clarinet in an orchestra. That post makes you sound so layed back I'd swear you play in a jazz quartet. You should have ended the post with "It's all cool, man".JHowell wrote:I think you're reading too much into it. Legalistic, yes, hostile not necessarily. The $50 fee is a right they reserve if you don't show up to pick up the widget when you said you would. True, the windows seem a bit narrow, but you never know. I tend to look for off-putting things about auctions that don't affect the actual deal. Other people might probably have the "who wants to deal with these assholes" reaction, I think it's just business and I've dealt with plenty of assholes, so long as they hold up their end of the deal it's water off a duck's back. If it were near me, I'd try to get a phone number or just email them to point out that the inspection is after the auction, that I'm interested in the lathe but would like to know that I'm dealing with reasonable people. Can I look at it? Frankly, If I could get it for $200 and I could get to the place I can see enough from the pictures.
Regards,
Frank.
------------------
Grouch Happens!
People usually get the gods they deserve - Terry Pratchett
Frank.
------------------
Grouch Happens!
People usually get the gods they deserve - Terry Pratchett
OK, to check alignment of head stock with tail stock you need some time and some test bars, and some means of holding them accurately in both. A rusty 3-jaw on the spindle and a used drill chuck in the tail stock won't tell you much, they could both be out. Not to worry, if the head stock and tail stock are both original to the lathe that's unlikely to be a problem.
My assessment of the lathe is "for the price." If it's $2000, it had better be brand spankers, if it's $200, just the castings are worth that much. What I see: a rusty but relatively clean used lathe. All the parts appear to be there, it doesn't look to have been raided for parts. What is rusty is what I'd expect to be rusty if it were stored for any length of time in a slightly humid environment. It will take some work to get the ways clean, but it's not to the point where they need to be ground. A few hours with Brasso and a white ScotchBrite pad, followed by a thorough cleaning with kerosene, should do the trick. I can't tell from the pictures if it was stored because it was crashed, because the spindle bearings froze, because it wore to the point it wouldn't hold tolerances (machines used that hard usually look like it, this one doesn't) or if the shop went out of business and the machines got stored. Could be a school machine, which would be perfect.
Logan strong points: First, bearings. Not so much the 10 inch, but the 11 especially used a really nice bearing set with a sensible preload arrangement. Easy (relatively) to replace if they go bad, not horribly expensive. Not like a Hardinge or a Monarch, for instance. The 11 has a good stiff spindle, and the bearings are relatively happy at 2000 rpm. If they ever become unhappy, see ease of replacement. Nice, beefy headstock, soaks up vibration better than you'd expect for its weight. Many parts interchange with both 10 and 12 inch lathes, so spares aren't that hard to find should you need them. The lathes themselves are relatively plentiful, were always a cut below South Bends (though I prefer them for their higher top speed) and are still cheaper.
Weak points: Lubrication, lubrication, lubrication. I hear that some Logans had hardened ways, I've never seen one so equipped. It's up to the owner/operator to keep the ways slathered and various turning wear points oiled, as opposed to more industrial machines that have oiling points for the ways on the saddle, or internal "one shot" oiling systems. If the lathe was ever used for sanding/polishing without protecting the ways, the lathe wears very quickly.
We have to remember that we're not making satellite parts here. One of my lathes is a Logan 11 inch that was badly worn with abrasives, but is just fine for making pipes. I'm not trying to talk anybody into this particular lathe. As one of Tolkein's elves said, advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill. I've probably done enough in showing where to look on ebay, and generally for what -- the only lathes I point out are ones that I think could be serviceable and may go cheaply enough to qualify as a deal. If everybody had $4k to spend it would be easy.
It's not that I'm immune to assholes or don't get irritated at them, it's that I *look* for things that may put other buyers off without making it a bad deal for me. So long as the item actually exists, and so long as I can make sure that I won't have my money stolen and no lathe, I hope the guy is such a jerk that nobody else will bid. I'd like to see him be such a jerk that I can't load the lathe in my truck. I bought a lathe from a museum once -- they had a page of fine print basically protecting them from anybody coming back at them for any reason. Once their thing was sold, they wanted to be paid and they wanted it to stay sold, and they didn't want to be stuck for weeks waiting for it to disappear, they wanted it gone. G-O-N-E, GONE. And they didn't want any of their employees collecting workmen's comp because they tried to help me move stuff. The way they put things was kind of similar to this seller, but the deal was no problem.
It's all cool, man.
My assessment of the lathe is "for the price." If it's $2000, it had better be brand spankers, if it's $200, just the castings are worth that much. What I see: a rusty but relatively clean used lathe. All the parts appear to be there, it doesn't look to have been raided for parts. What is rusty is what I'd expect to be rusty if it were stored for any length of time in a slightly humid environment. It will take some work to get the ways clean, but it's not to the point where they need to be ground. A few hours with Brasso and a white ScotchBrite pad, followed by a thorough cleaning with kerosene, should do the trick. I can't tell from the pictures if it was stored because it was crashed, because the spindle bearings froze, because it wore to the point it wouldn't hold tolerances (machines used that hard usually look like it, this one doesn't) or if the shop went out of business and the machines got stored. Could be a school machine, which would be perfect.
Logan strong points: First, bearings. Not so much the 10 inch, but the 11 especially used a really nice bearing set with a sensible preload arrangement. Easy (relatively) to replace if they go bad, not horribly expensive. Not like a Hardinge or a Monarch, for instance. The 11 has a good stiff spindle, and the bearings are relatively happy at 2000 rpm. If they ever become unhappy, see ease of replacement. Nice, beefy headstock, soaks up vibration better than you'd expect for its weight. Many parts interchange with both 10 and 12 inch lathes, so spares aren't that hard to find should you need them. The lathes themselves are relatively plentiful, were always a cut below South Bends (though I prefer them for their higher top speed) and are still cheaper.
Weak points: Lubrication, lubrication, lubrication. I hear that some Logans had hardened ways, I've never seen one so equipped. It's up to the owner/operator to keep the ways slathered and various turning wear points oiled, as opposed to more industrial machines that have oiling points for the ways on the saddle, or internal "one shot" oiling systems. If the lathe was ever used for sanding/polishing without protecting the ways, the lathe wears very quickly.
We have to remember that we're not making satellite parts here. One of my lathes is a Logan 11 inch that was badly worn with abrasives, but is just fine for making pipes. I'm not trying to talk anybody into this particular lathe. As one of Tolkein's elves said, advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill. I've probably done enough in showing where to look on ebay, and generally for what -- the only lathes I point out are ones that I think could be serviceable and may go cheaply enough to qualify as a deal. If everybody had $4k to spend it would be easy.
It's not that I'm immune to assholes or don't get irritated at them, it's that I *look* for things that may put other buyers off without making it a bad deal for me. So long as the item actually exists, and so long as I can make sure that I won't have my money stolen and no lathe, I hope the guy is such a jerk that nobody else will bid. I'd like to see him be such a jerk that I can't load the lathe in my truck. I bought a lathe from a museum once -- they had a page of fine print basically protecting them from anybody coming back at them for any reason. Once their thing was sold, they wanted to be paid and they wanted it to stay sold, and they didn't want to be stuck for weeks waiting for it to disappear, they wanted it gone. G-O-N-E, GONE. And they didn't want any of their employees collecting workmen's comp because they tried to help me move stuff. The way they put things was kind of similar to this seller, but the deal was no problem.
It's all cool, man.
For those of you who have accidently come into close contact with Jack and have contracted his "South Bend Fever" (folks are heard to say "Poor Jack, he's gone round the South Bend" - AARRG! What lousy humour 
), this might be of use/interest: http://www.wswells.com/index.html
), this might be of use/interest: http://www.wswells.com/index.htmlRegards,
Frank.
------------------
Grouch Happens!
People usually get the gods they deserve - Terry Pratchett
Frank.
------------------
Grouch Happens!
People usually get the gods they deserve - Terry Pratchett
Jack, you're a real prince for going through the (extended) effort to break things down for me. Noblesse oblige. 
I had already emailed the sellers about arranging an inspection *before the auction close* after your penultimate post. Judging by the listing info, I figured it was a school machine shop lathe, but I didn't know if that was good or bad... some kids in these parts get a thrill from vandalizing school property... then again, the lathe might have been a teacher's pet.
Again, thank you.
I had already emailed the sellers about arranging an inspection *before the auction close* after your penultimate post. Judging by the listing info, I figured it was a school machine shop lathe, but I didn't know if that was good or bad... some kids in these parts get a thrill from vandalizing school property... then again, the lathe might have been a teacher's pet.
Again, thank you.
School lathes are pretty good, generally. My SB 11 was a school machine (all the handles painted different colors is a dead giveaway -- "no, no, NO, don't turn the red thing, turn the BLUE thing!") and while it looks like every student who used it dropped every piece of work on the ways, the ways are almost unworn and the dings can be stoned out. A school lathe gets used a couple of hours a day doing all kinds of different things. A shop lathe often gets set up to run one part and does just that two shifts a day until it spits the dummy.
Good luck!
Frank, that's not such a terrible joke. I'm not super high on SBs for pipes, though. A Heavy 10 would be the best, since it's likely to have hardened ways and, if newer, will spin up to 1400 rpm. But they're expensive. Making pipes is rough on a lathe. A lathe lives on oil, which keeps the sliding things sliding and the spinning things spinning. Sawdust soaks it up, so you have to keep the ways brushed off and oiled and keep the way wipers in good shape. A lathe hates abrasive particles, which get embedded in the ways and apron/tailstock bearing surfaces and wear them. It's pretty hard to make pipes without using abrasives on the lathe at least some of the time, so you have to be careful to cover the ways with plastic and use good dust collection. If sawdust or abrasives get in the bearings, though, it's a big problem. That Logans use fairly well protected and replaceable cartridge bearings is a big advantage from the standpoint of longevity as well as top speed.
Sheesh, sorry, another dissertation.
Good luck!
Frank, that's not such a terrible joke. I'm not super high on SBs for pipes, though. A Heavy 10 would be the best, since it's likely to have hardened ways and, if newer, will spin up to 1400 rpm. But they're expensive. Making pipes is rough on a lathe. A lathe lives on oil, which keeps the sliding things sliding and the spinning things spinning. Sawdust soaks it up, so you have to keep the ways brushed off and oiled and keep the way wipers in good shape. A lathe hates abrasive particles, which get embedded in the ways and apron/tailstock bearing surfaces and wear them. It's pretty hard to make pipes without using abrasives on the lathe at least some of the time, so you have to be careful to cover the ways with plastic and use good dust collection. If sawdust or abrasives get in the bearings, though, it's a big problem. That Logans use fairly well protected and replaceable cartridge bearings is a big advantage from the standpoint of longevity as well as top speed.
Sheesh, sorry, another dissertation.
Let's say you live near this machine, I'm guessing Chicago area. Let's say you've got lots of room in your garage/shop and a vehicle that will tow a Uhaul motorcycle trailer. Here's a machine that might not go very high because it's a little too big. 1100 pounds is no joke, that's about what my Hardinge weighs, but I've moved it with a dolly and some 2X4s and one helper. It would be a great machine for pipes, comes with 5C collet closer. They say top speed less than 1500 rpm, I doubt it's much less. Wish I were closer or not so busy, I'll be kicking myself if it goes for peanuts.
http://cgi.ebay.com/13x40-GAP-BED-LATHE ... dZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/13x40-GAP-BED-LATHE ... dZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/Logan-10-inch-metal ... dZViewItem
Somebody put a nice big dial on the cross slide, that's good.
Somebody put a nice big dial on the cross slide, that's good.