ABS Update

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:59 pm

As I mentioned in a previous post, ABS drills & turns with ease. It also mills very nicely.

When it comes to sanding and filing, I would have to say it exhibits properties that fall somewhere between Vulcanite & Delrin, can't exactly say where. When power sanding, disk or belt, it doesn't produce "powder" like vulcanite/ebonite, but rather produces a swarf(? - for want of a better term) similar to Acrylic/Plastic and/or Delrin.

The downside is that it requires more time and care when fine tuning by hand, and tends to clog the sandpaper more quickly when hand sanding. It also requires more work to "smear" the slit and get a decent rectangular hole. Maybe that's just me.

The upside is that you can get a snug mortise/tenon fit, with ease of removal similar to Delrin, sort of "self lubed". I doubt you would ever get a cracked or broken tenon with this stuff. Chances of even snapping the stem when stepped on seem pretty slim. (No, I'm not going to jump on the stem I just finished. Robert says next time he messes up an ABS stem, he'll run some "hammer" tests on it).

For those of you who use Delrin rod for your tenons, you might want to give ABS a try.

It's difficult to tell with the final polish, but vulcanite might just have a wee bit more shine. Again, maybe it's just me.

Given that it's about 1/4 the price of ebonite and easily obtainable(in the States), it certainly seems like a viable alternative.

Now I'm off to try and make a P-lip stem for an orphan Wellington bowl I have so I can try out the mouth feel.

LatakiaLover · Post by **LatakiaLover** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:11 pm

Frank -- you clearly know your way around a shop, and make pipes 'n' stems 'n' stuff... do you have a site of pieces for sale, or pics here on Kurt's site of work you've done? (I can't get much out of bb search engines at the best of times)

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:11 pm

LatakiaLover wrote:Frank -- you clearly know your way around a shop, and make pipes 'n' stems 'n' stuff... do you have a site of pieces for sale, or pics here on Kurt's site of work you've done? (I can't get much out of bb search engines at the best of times)

LOL.

Many thanks for the compliment, but I have to admit, it's entirely undeserved.

My workshop knowledge is virtually all self taught (with probably the worst shop bad habits), other than a 3 month stint in a machine shop required as an engineering student, way back when the Rolling Stones were still belting it out on vinyl only.

My experience to date has been refurbing estate pipes and tossing them back onto eBay, but admittedly I do as good a job as I can, no short change. I'm still working through a backlog of pipes from when I went eBay bezerk awhile ago. Thank goodness I weaned myself off that. I need the scratch to buy the needed pipemaking stuff. As for actual scratch pipe making, all I've managed so far have been a few practice runs on black walnut to get the "feel" of it.

The pipe knowledge I have, has been gleaned from this forum from the excellent hints, tips and how-to's posted here, as well as the insightful critiques of the likes of Kurt, Tyler, et al. It is to them that the compliments must go.

pierredekat · Post by **pierredekat** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:44 pm

Yeah, that "swarf" is kindof a bother. I had my best luck with letting it cool for a few seconds, but pealing it off before it had completely re-solidified.

And speaking of sanding, one thing I have been meaning to update: originally I thought that wet-sanding was the way to go when you get to the finer grades of sandpaper.

But I think I have come to the belief that just regular dry-sanding is the way to go. It's weird, but wet-sanding tends to leave a little bit of a haze. It's hard to describe, but when you wet-sand, you can see it.

So if you haven't already started the finish sanding, my suggestion is to go the dry-sanding route, rather than the wet-sanding route.

kkendall · Post by **kkendall** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:44 pm

Yeah, that "swarf" is kindof a bother. I had my best luck with letting it cool for a few seconds, but pealing it off before it had completely re-solidified.

It is a bit gooey when sanding, melts fast.

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:05 pm

kkendall wrote:
pierredekat wrote:Yeah, that "swarf" is kindof a bother. I had my best luck with letting it cool for a few seconds, but pealing it off before it had completely re-solidified.
It is a bit gooey when sanding, melts fast.

I don't think I experienced it actually becoming gooey. My belt grinder/sander runs at 1750 rpm. I also use a very coarse 24 grit belt (road gravel

) for initial stock removal.

What speed are you guys power sanding at? Perhaps a slower speed might help with the gooey problem.

pierredekat · Post by **pierredekat** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:15 am

Frank wrote:What speed are you guys power sanding at? Perhaps a slower speed might help with the gooey problem.

On my 4x36, I'm using 36 grit sandpaper, and according to the literature that came with it, I'm doing 1150 FPM. Unfortunately, that particular sander is not variable speed.

I do have a 3x21 hand belt sander that is variable speed, but I haven't used it much since I bought the bench sander.

But like I said earlier, I didn't find the swarf that much trouble to deal with. It can be pealed off before it completely re-solidifies, or it can be sanded off if you tilt the stem a little.

I guess I have worked enough with some black acrylic rod that I found to be a real nuisance about making a swarf that the Absylux/ABS swarf just didn't phase me.

wdteipen · Post by **wdteipen** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:41 am

Made my first ABS stem today. The rough stem shaping was a bit of a pain due to the "swarf" but I found that it did quite well with rasps, files, and sandpaper. In the future, I may even forego the rough sanding and just use a rasp to remove material quickly. It seems a bit softer and easier to sculpt than lucite. It also drilled like butter. I haven't buffed it up yet but so far I like it. Especially for the price tag. Of course, I'm new to pipecraft and so my experience is very limited. But that's a newbie's take on it.

pierredekat · Post by **pierredekat** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:10 pm

wdteipen wrote:Made my first ABS stem today. The rough stem shaping was a bit of a pain due to the "swarf" but I found that it did quite well with rasps, files, and sandpaper. In the future, I may even forego the rough sanding and just use a rasp to remove material quickly. It seems a bit softer and easier to sculpt than lucite. It also drilled like butter. I haven't buffed it up yet but so far I like it. Especially for the price tag. Of course, I'm new to pipecraft and so my experience is very limited. But that's a newbie's take on it.

Well, glad to hear it. Yeah, the more I have been working with it, the more I wonder how people made the leap from Ebonite to Acrylic. Seems to me the leap from Ebonite to ABS would have made a lot more sense, huh?

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:45 pm

pierredekat wrote:.... the more I have been working with it, the more I wonder how people made the leap from Ebonite to Acrylic. Seems to me the leap from Ebonite to ABS would have made a lot more sense, huh?

Mostly the time factor, I would imagine. Vulcanite/ebonite & acrylic are easier to work, requiring less time. For professional pipemakers this is very likely a factor to be considered.

Still, one wonders why the pipe manufacturing companies like Dr. Grabow, that use premolded vulcanite stems, haven't ventured into the ABS area for premoldeds. I know some manufacturers use/have used nylon stems, but nylon sucks compared to ABS. It's awful to work with compared to ABS.

For me, the major attraction to ABS is cost & availability. If vulcanite/ebonite were cheaper and easily obtainable, I would certainly choose it first.

pierredekat · Post by **pierredekat** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:06 pm

Frank wrote:Mostly the time factor, I would imagine. Vulcanite/ebonite & acrylic are easier to work, requiring less time. For professional pipemakers this is very likely a factor to be considered.

Still, one wonders why the pipe manufacturing companies like Dr. Grabow, that use premolded vulcanite stems, haven't ventured into the ABS area for premoldeds. I know some manufacturers use/have used nylon stems, but nylon sucks compared to ABS. It's awful to work with compared to ABS.

For me, the major attraction to ABS is cost & availability. If vulcanite/ebonite were cheaper and easily obtainable, I would certainly choose it first.

Well, no, I understand the appeal of Vulcanite/Ebonite. What puzzles me is why pipemakers would have switched to Acrylic. The only thing I can think is they probably had experience with it from high school shop class.