turning bowls or shanks

jbacon · Post by **jbacon** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 1:45 pm

how many of you are turning bowls and shanks on the lathe(I for one am)
i also notice that alot of danes do as well. jess chov, s.bang, kurt ballby,
former. i find that nothing else it a. removes alot of wood b. gives me a very good guideline to follow(like coloring inside the lines). i know that mark tinsky does as well(go look at this todays work). i really dont make too many fancy shapes and mostly just make pipes for myself.(i do alot of pokers)

jim

Post by **Tyler** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 2:13 pm

I do when the shape I am after allows it. I probably turn a portion of the bowl about 15% of the time. Most of the shapes I make are not symmetrical in such a way that I can turn it, and lots of them are drilled on a different axis then the bowl's shape might indicate, so this limits turning on a lathe as well. (It can be done that you turn on one axis, then drill the chamber on another, but it is tricky getting everything aligned.)

This pipe's bowl was turned, and then I chucked it at a different angle to drill chamber...it was pretty tricky but it turned out great:

The chamber is slanted back toward the shank in order to have a bigger chamber than a saucer might normally have.

Tyler

MitchG · Post by **MitchG** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 11:21 pm

Up until now, I've been using the mill to drill stummels and doing rough shaping using the band saw followed by belt/disc and hand sanding. However, with the imminent arrival of my Jet Mini lathe, I'm wondering - do you turners use a roughing gouge and then go to a spindle for the upper bowl or shank, or do you use a spindle gouge for the entire shaping operation? What sizes do you find to be most useful? Also, what's the best method to cut those bulldog/saucer grooves? Parting tool, sawblade, something else?

Thanks,
Mitch

Post by **Tyler** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:55 am

3/8" spindle guage is what I use for all bowl and shank shaping. I have lots of other chisels, but the 3/8" is best suited to the task or its nice balance of not too big and not too small.

For cuttin grooves, I typically use a 1/16" parting tool. I'll experiment in this area though, as I'd like to narrow the grooves a bit from those I've made in the past.

Tyler

ArtGuy · Post by **ArtGuy** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:51 am

I noticed in a woodturning catalog i received, that they also make a little wire thing that you can touch to the side of a bowl as it turns to burn a small black line around it.

http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/cgi-b ... y=355-1899

bscofield · Post by **bscofield** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:47 am

alright... nobody take offense at this if you turn any part of the pipe. This is just my opinion...

Turning the pipe on a lathe seems kind of like cheating to me... I don't know if "cheating" is the right word tho. More like it's seems to me that it's more rewarding to have a really round symmetrical bowl (and other stuff) if it is all done by hand. Like "Fat Boy" (my FAVORITE pipe of John's) is awesome. I don't know if he turned it, and it really doesn't matter, but if he didn't then I just look and say, "WOW!" Knowing it was hand-made and has the symmetry and roundness that you'd expect from a machine.

All that, IMO.

Post by **Tyler** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:24 pm

Ben,

I think everyone has their own line in the sand for when power assisted shaping changes from hand made to cheating. Some say a sanding disc is too much, that hand files ought to be used, and others say that it is fine to power assist. I (obviously) find turning and sanding discs acceptable.

I had this discussion one time with a European collector that was bashing a maker for using a lathe. It seems that most people are quite ignorant on he a wood lathe is used, my friend certainly was. When I explained to him how a hand chisel was used to shape with a wood lathe, and that wood turning is an art unto itself, he changed his stance. He had no idea that the tool was wielded by hand. He though it was a very mechanical process.

One thing to note is that even if a lathe is used, only a small fraction of the bowl can typically be turned. I don't know about the Fat Boy in particular, but if John did turn it, I'd bet at least 50% of the bowl shaping was still hand done, and that the most critical part. The junction between the shank and bowl, that so very critical part of a pipe, cannot be done on a lathe. When you look at a pipe that is poorly done, the issues with the pipe are almost ALL non-turning related issues. In other words, I don't think a lathe will take a poor pipe maker and make him good, or even better. It is just a tool for efficiency.

In the end, if a lathe bothers you, don't use one. I can say this about a lathe from the perspective of selling pipes. I have NEVER had someone pick up a pipe, love it, ask if I used a lathe, then put it back because I did. And from the standpoint of personal satisfaction with a job well done, I can say without hesitation that I did not hold the saucer (pictured in my above post) and think, "If only I hadn't turned it THEN I would be satisfied with this pipe."

Tyler

jbacon · Post by **jbacon** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:49 pm

excellant point tyler

on the saucer pipe when you first posted it on the web site you had a link to gl pease site that showed peter heeschen making this pipe. i found it very interesting that peter had actually turned a very round shank w/ the stem attached. and then he turned it clear up to the bowl. and then he completely reshaped the shank. when i first posted this i noticed a few danes on www.danishpipemaker.com had actually turned the shank clear up to the bowl and i was thinking this would help me in the shank/bowl junction(not as easy as it looks). but as you have said then this limits you on your shank. mark twain had a saying "gets the facts right and then you can distort the truth all you want". and in pipe making i think this is what peter did on the saucer pipe. but even after turning he had to do alot of work.
sorry for the length of this post
jim

bscofield · Post by **bscofield** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:54 pm

In other words, I don't think a lathe will take a poor pipe maker and make him good, or even better. It is just a tool for efficiency.

Right... that's not so much what I was thinking. Nor did I mean to make any exclusive comments about using lathes either. I doubt too many buyers ask about whether or not a lathe was used in the production of a pipe

I know lathe turning is hard, for sure. I've seen it done and it doesn't even "look easy." I don't think less of anyone for using one or anything like that. My satisfaction coming from a symmetrical bowl shouldn't discount anyone elses no matter how it was used. And given the difficulty that it requires to turn with a lathe, as you mentioned, I guess it could just be considered an alternative method to a sanding disc...

marks · Post by **marks** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:00 pm

To answer your question Jim, I am not using a lathe to turn bowls and shanks. If I were trying to make a living with pipemaking, I would give it serious consideration, though. Just from reading posts here, and knowing how long it takes me to make a pipe, it seems that a lathe would be a necessity for volume or semi-volume work.

Post by **Tyler** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:50 pm

Eltang has been doing a little turning... screen shot from today's (7/4/04) webcam:

Tyler

jbacon · Post by **jbacon** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 9:12 pm

tyler

did you see his chuck- it was a 2-jaw self centering chuck which some special jaws for pipe making. I would very much like to see some jaws made for the oneway chuck. i guess everyone is doing the same as i am and removing 2 of the jaws and using the other 2. and i guess everyone is using the #2 jaws that comes with the chuck. kurt said some where else in the forum that he uses some plates sometimes w/ his. i would like to see it. i once seen the jaws mark tinsky uses on his todays work, and they where triangluar in shape. i may have to try and draw up some plans and send them to ken lamb. or mabe random can make me some

random actually in the tool department is very good. if anyone has else feels the same way or have has customed jaws for the oneway. i would love to hear it and if someone else has thought up or made custom jaws for there oneway i would love to as well.

thanks

jim

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 11:16 pm

I use the #2 jaws for the most part, but I also use the spigot jaws once in a while if need be.

What I would love i a set like the #2 jaws, but that are 4" long. That would give enough room to drill very odd shapes on my lathe.

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 10:19 am

Oneway does make flat jaws (no "jaw" part) for their chucks so that turners can make their own jaws from pieces of wood and screw them to the jaw base. Wou could probably do the same thing with hunks of metal if you can keep the lines and holes straight. I haven't seen these flat jaws in person though, so I have ni idea if they're strong enough to be up to teh task.

I have no delusions about doing such a thing, as I'm simply not equipped with the right tooling. However, it could be a fun weekend project for someone who does.