pipemakersforum.com

I started futzing around more with contrast staining without using dyes or stains, and this is one of those experiments in process:


The reaction turned the top layer of wood jet black after about a 90 minutes, but the grain is still visible underneath. I'm going to let it rest and do it's thing for several hours today while I work on other pipes and update my website with new offerings. Later today I'll fix the reaction and buff it to see what I've got.

Looks good. Please let us know how this was achieved if you don't mind. I have been on the lookout for such an effect.

Step three is complete - neutralizing the reaction and fixing the contrast.

This is tannic acid from the homebrew supply store, and vinegar - applied in successive steps and allowed to react.

The pipe is now drying on the pegboard on the kitchen table, though I'm about to go stick it in the toaster oven to speed the drying process. Later on today, or possibly tomorrow morning depending on when it actually becomes dry, I'll buff it out and see what I'm left with.

I'm aiming for a dark contrast. If you're looking for the final finish to be jet black, I guess you would follow the same steps I did, but not buff the wood afterward. Use shellac to set the color, *then* buff - but I'm not sure.

Any idea what will happen over time with casual smoking? Will the color stay even over areas that experience different temperature highs?

Temperature shouldn't affect this at all, since the reaction isn't dependent upon temp. What I'm more concerned with is if I was able to neutralize all the vinegar in order to stop the reaction. I'm going to smoke this pretty much every day until I can come to some conclusion on that.

Gotta put the wort on the King Kooker to boil, and while that's happening, I'll buff up this stummel to see what I've got. Pics to follow. Unless the pipe sucks, in which case I'll let this thread die.

KurtHuhn wrote:Step three is complete - neutralizing the reaction and fixing the contrast.

This is tannic acid from the homebrew supply store, and vinegar - applied in successive steps and allowed to react.

The pipe is now drying on the pegboard on the kitchen table, though I'm about to go stick it in the toaster oven to speed the drying process. Later on today, or possibly tomorrow morning depending on when it actually becomes dry, I'll buff it out and see what I'm left with.

I'm aiming for a dark contrast. If you're looking for the final finish to be jet black, I guess you would follow the same steps I did, but not buff the wood afterward. Use shellac to set the color, *then* buff - but I'm not sure.

If it's similar to what I've done, you'll likely be left with a very dark brown. It penetrates deeper than aniline dyes, though it is not black per se. But the good thing is that you won't need to set the color, which is now part of the wood. It's different enough from aniline that you can dye over it and retain your contrast, without the undercolor mixing with the top coat. Generally that top layer is so thick that it requires brown compounding and then 600 grit sanding just to get down to the point where you're seeing variance in the wood grain tones again.

I guess I've been doing this since, hmm, around 99-2000 or so. But at the risk of dampening the enthusiasm, I just don't bother that often. A few good coats of an attractive aniline color still gives a beautiful result instantly, without all the waiting for this application and then that application to dry, then fighting it all to get the contrast even. These days I save it for the odd really special piece that I want to have a genuinely unique look.

As for smoking performance, it should be just fine. It darkens up normally in use, but doesn't rub off with handling.

So you mixed the tanic acid with tyhe vinegar? It will be interesting to see how it comes out. I have been looking for a high contrast finish. I hope this works out well for you. Looking forward to the results

Tsunami wrote:So you mixed the tanic acid with tyhe vinegar? It will be interesting to see how it comes out. I have been looking for a high contrast finish. I hope this works out well for you. Looking forward to the results

Nope. You apply each to the stummel in turn. If you mix them, you basically have a black stain, and that's no different than using a leather dye at that point.

TreverT wrote: If it's similar to what I've done, you'll likely be left with a very dark brown. It penetrates deeper than aniline dyes, though it is not black per se. But the good thing is that you won't need to set the color, which is now part of the wood. It's different enough from aniline that you can dye over it and retain your contrast, without the undercolor mixing with the top coat. Generally that top layer is so thick that it requires brown compounding and then 600 grit sanding just to get down to the point where you're seeing variance in the wood grain tones again.

Yeah, this was about as hard as I've ever had to buff something. I didn't resort to paper, but I did have to constantly reapply fresh compound to the wheel.

I guess I've been doing this since, hmm, around 99-2000 or so. But at the risk of dampening the enthusiasm, I just don't bother that often. A few good coats of an attractive aniline color still gives a beautiful result instantly, without all the waiting for this application and then that application to dry, then fighting it all to get the contrast even. These days I save it for the odd really special piece that I want to have a genuinely unique look.

Here's the results:




I'll leave judgement up you guys, but I'm impressed.

Wow. That really came out well!... nice and black and no real nasty chemicals.

So you didn't add an aniline contrast stain after the initial tannic/vingear routine?

Thanks!

I left the colors were naturally occurring in the briar, though in hindsight, and nice light stain would have done wonders - like a Feibings beige or light tan.

There are many experiments to go on this finish before I'm truly happy with it, but I learned a hell of a lot. For instance, I need to learn how to buff this off without killing myself. My brown compound did okay once I ramped up the RPM to 2600 and really pressed the stummel in, but the black really goes deeper than is practical for buffing with that compound.

Also, I think I may have sanded to too high a grit to start with before applying the tannins. I'll need to experiment with sanding only to 360/400 or so.

That is EXACTLY what I am looking for!!! Now if I can find a place to buy some tannic acid. Kurt, Is there a specific concentration of tannic acid and also what kind of vinegar did you use? What was used as a neutralizer? That contrast is great! I am so glad you came up with this, much better that messing around with Copper(II) Cloride and Aniline Hydrochloride.

Here's the beauty of this! Tannic acid is available at any homebrew store that also caters to wine makers, or just about 10,000 different places online. It's sold as "tannin" and is packaged and distributed by RD Carlson - the same folks sell about 70% of the brewing supplies out there.

The vinegar is plain white distilled vinegar available at any grocery store.

Neutralize the vinegar, an acid, with a base. Most homes have a box of Baking Soda around, and it's a rather convenient neutralizer for acids of all kinds. Remember the volcanoes you made in grade school with modeling clay, vinegar, red food dye, and baking soda?

As far as concentration.... well, lets just say that a little goes a long way. I've got a good half inch of undissolved tannin in the bottom of the jar I mixed it in. I put 20 grams in the solution, and I'll bet I could have used 2 grams instead.

This looks fantastic Kurt! Very very nice!

Now that is stunning!!!

I think i may have a go at this myself, better get down to the "hop shop" and see if they have any tannic acid!

Wow that is amazing. Really nice antique white mixed in with that blackish brown. Iv got some reading to do on using vinegar with dyes...

The last photo says everything.

I know this might sound a bit cheeky but could you give a more detailed description of how you applied this to the pipe? I went out and got some tannin today and im itching to have a go!!

Cheers

Well, there's not a whole lot to tell. I mixed up a solution of tannin, and started applying it to the wood. I used the old folded over pipe cleaner applicator.

KurtHuhn wrote:Well, there's not a whole lot to tell. I mixed up a solution of tannin, and started applying it to the wood. I used the old folded over pipe cleaner applicator.

So did you just make up a saturated solution of the tannin and it turned the wood black? What about the vinegar, where does that part come in?

Sorry for all the questions but i tried a little bit on a scrap of wood and nothing really happened, although i didnt make a saturated solution of tannin.

If im not mistaken the reaction between tannin and vinegar is what makes the wood black. Its all there if you read the thread- how to use vinegar and how to apply it all.

Take pictures regardless of results and post them asap as soon as you get something!