Briar Sourcing

[ToddJohnson]

Hello All,

I just wanted to share some musings about briar with you. I know that there are several easily accessible sources for briar here in the states, the most popular for hobby carvers probably being Pimo. I also know that several high volume American pipemakers sell briar to folks in small parcels. Now I'm not trying to disparage anyone or negatively effect their business, but I do want to comment on the quality of their briar.

I recently had the opportunity to sort through numerous bags of "Greecian" briar from which no blocks had been "skimmed off." This is the same briar used and sold by the aforementioned American pipemakers and probably by Pimo as well. I had very little at stake in this deal and could have probably purchased the whole lot for maybe $500, I'm not sure. In the end, after sorting through all the bags and looking at literally every single piece, I was able to find slightly less than 20 that I deemed usable, and these mainly for their size instead of their grain. The majority had cracks in them from improper drying, most were cut to maximize volume of blocks per burl rather than paying attention to the direction and pattern of the grain. Many had large visible pits, pock marks, and fissures. All of them were extremely dark brown, nearly black, something I've come to associate with inferior quality briar. This, I would bargain, is the exact same briar most of you are getting when you place small batch orders with whomever you order briar from.

Now I'm not being elitist here or chiding you for being duped into buying said briar. That is not my intention at all. I realize that $50 per block is probably cost prohibitive for many of you and that it's often just very difficult to find good briar. My point in saying this however is that I really feel for you guys. You spend all this time and effort working on a piece, you're totally excited about the possible results, the anticipation of getting into the shop and making briar dust is nearly unbarable, and then when you set to work you find that your design can't be executed in the block because it's a maze of pits, cracks, and fissures. I can't count how many times I've heard numerous budding or aspiring pipecarvers talk about how they were going along fine and then "the pit from hell opened up and ruined everything." That's got to be both frustrating and dis-heartening.

Here's what I think. I think the idea that briar is a natural substance and it's all full of pits and it's you versus the briar, etc. has been propogated to such an extent that people think all briar is the same. Well it absolutely IS NOT! When I talk to Tom or Jess or Lars or Peter about pipes and about briar I don't ever hear the same sort of stories about the notorious "pit from hell." Point being, there are levels of quality when it comes to briar and unfortunately, you guys are probably getting some of the worst. Those of us who do this for a living certainly discard pipes, and occasionally yes, it is because we hit a huge flaw, but more often than not it's because of a mindless, careless, or stupid screw-up on our part. Anyway, you may be wondering what's the point of all this text. Here it is.

You guys need to get together and purchase some quality briar. Either find someone who will source it for you, or put together a group buy like you've been talking about. Search it out, find it, buy it. Do what you have to do to procure higher quality materials. If you're making 10 pipes a year and it takes you 30 blocks to do it, you're no better off than if you paid twice as much for half as many blocks to make those same 10 pipes. What you do miss is the frustration and disappointment of working with sub-standard materials. I would strongly encourage all of you to just bite the bullett, pay more money for fewer blocks, and save yourselves a lot of frustration. I *promise* you there is a huge difference and you will *not* be disappointed.

Alright, I've got to get down to the shop myself. I hope this doesn't come off as rude. There's really nothing at stake for me, it's just a bit painful to see so many of you frustrated by these sourcing issues. Best of luck with your future carving.

Regards,

Todd

P.S. Please don't e-mail me asking where I get my briar or if I will sell any. Also, I cant source briar or orchestrate a group buy. I do it with bamboo and would never be able to take on something else as well. My suggestion would be to talk to Tyler or check out the links which I assume are here on this site somewhere.

[geigerpipes]

Great post Tod

Let me add a short note
I mostly spend 1.5-2 working days on any pipe i make and if that time is going to be wasted cause of bad briar the cost for me is worse than getting the best wood avaliable...

so why not optimize you chanses for sucsess

Love
www.geigerpipes.com

[jeff]

Todd,

I agree with your point and thank you for posting. While I have not had the extreme misfortunes mentioned by many on these boards, I can imagine what it would be like to be working on a shape, to be hours into carving, and to uncover the "pit from hell."

My sources for briar are those very same pipemakers you mentioned who sell "the finest quality grecian briar" which I can't help laughing at when I receive it. Indeed, they are nearly black and rarely have amazing grain, or even slightly pretty grain in many cases. However, as Random mentioned the cost is something that prohibits people from ordering these blocks.

But your point stands strongly against this, in my opinion. If I had the unfortunate luck that many have had when carving, why wouldn't I move on to another grade of briar. If I'm spending $25 per block as it is and scrap even 1/3 of the ones that I make, my actual cost per pipe has just been increased by $12! I might as well have spent that $12 extra and bought a better block to start with instead of scrapping on b/c of a natural flaw.

As for me, after making a few more pipes and finishing the briar that I have on hand, I think that I will move on to higher grades of briar. If I make a beautiful shape out of a piece of inferior briar, I still have an inferior pipe. I'd rather take my chances with a higher quality piece and let my own skill as a pipemaker decide the outcome, not the wood.

Jeff

[jeff]

This is directed toward Todd, Tyler, or anyone else who has found some solutions to the briar sourcing dilemma.

The question has been raised about the quality of briar readily available for use by hobbiests in the states. It is obvious enough that the quality is wanting, to say the least. But for those of you who have found sources other than JHLowe, Pimo, & Tinsky, which regions do provide the higher qualities of briar? Whom does one approach for this information on suppliers? How does one begin to approach them?

So, assuming that there are enough people interested and a group buy is feasible, is Jaume Hom, Briargrains.com, or Romeo considered higher quality briar? I'm taking for granted that they are higher, but are not the highest? I guess that my question is as stated above. How would even a group gain the necessary contact information to organize a group buy from the highest quality seller?

Of course, I don't begin to assume that Todd, Tyler, or whomever should be willing to divulge their closely guarded sources. But, on the other hand, how do other people begin to make these contacts?

Jeff

[ToddJohnson]

This is directed toward Todd, Tyler, or anyone else who has found some solutions to the briar sourcing dilemma.

The question has been raised about the quality of briar readily available for use by hobbiests in the states. It is obvious enough that the quality is wanting, to say the least. But for those of you who have found sources other than JHLowe, Pimo, & Tinsky, which regions do provide the higher qualities of briar? Whom does one approach for this information on suppliers? How does one begin to approach them?

So, assuming that there are enough people interested and a group buy is feasible, is Jaume Hom, Briargrains.com, or Romeo considered higher quality briar? I'm taking for granted that they are higher, but are not the highest? I guess that my question is as stated above. How would even a group gain the necessary contact information to organize a group buy from the highest quality seller?

Jeff

Hi Jeff (and All)

The first and probably *least* helpful answer to these questions is that you should attend as many shows as you can. Contacts with the right people don't occur magically. They take a fair bit of networking, something that is significantly limited over the computer. So, the best advice I can give is to show up at Chicago with a wad of cash and a notepad.

As far as the "best regions" for briar, Corsica and Calabria are generally regarded as the best regions, although Romeo, who is the best briar cutter in the world, will tell you that good briar can come from anywhere. Additionally, a load might come in from Calabria, one from Liguria, and one from Corsica. They're all cut together and grouped into the same piles, so much of it gets mixed in together. The best a cutter can do is tell you where the majority of the burls come from, but saying with any certainty that this or that block came from this or that region is nigh unto impossible.

My suggestion would be to try for an order of 200+ blocks. The problem is that with a group buy from a high grade briar cutter, you're not going to get a significant discount. Much like in demand pipemakers, people like Mimo can sell everything they don't use to feed the furnaces at full price. Plus, 200 blocks is not a significantly large order in comparison with what just a normal full time high-grade pipemaker might order. Don't expect deep discounts. Just be assured that the quality will be excellent and your potential results will be maximized to the utmost. In the end, only you can decide whether or not the additional cost is justified.

Best,

Todd

[MitchG]

Being a novice carver, I decided to order a small lot of large ebauchons from Yazid at briargrains.com. Figured I'd work with some cross-grained blocks at a lower cost while I developed my skills. The small amount of plateau wood I've gotten via Stateside suppliers has not demonstrated the dark coloration others have mentioned, but I have encountered a substantial number of blanks which had significant splits/fissures in the interior of the block. This (to me) indicates improper seasoning/drying. My order from Algeria should be here in a few weeks and I'd be happy to report back as to the apparent quality of the wood (despite my inexperience at assessing same). That being said, I'd be more than willing to participate in a group purchase of some quality blocks. Even if I put 'em up on the shelf to season while my skills improve, it would be a worthwhile investment.

Mitch

[Gatorade]

gone

[jeff]

Todd,

That is a very helpful answer to my questions. That at least gives us information that will help us to begin networking to establish relationships that may lead to higher quality briar. I had felt, to this point, like the conversation was going nowhere. But, this info was great.

Jeff

[ToddJohnson]

..., although Romeo, who is the best briar cutter in the world, will tell you that good briar can come from anywhere.

If Romeo is the best cutter in the world, would it follow that the briar he sells would be of very high quality? Is this the same Romeo that sells online?

Well I suppose no, it wouldn't *necessarily* follow that just because he's the best briar cutter in the world that his briar is of very high quality. There are a lot of steps that go into proper curing and seasoning of briar, cutting being only one. Mimo's briar *is* spectacular though. What makes his briar so good is that he's extremely descriminating about the blocks that he actually allows to be sold. For instance, every single one of the blocks of "Greecian briar" that I sorted through recently would have been used to feed Mimo's furnaces that heat the water to boil the blocks that *are* suitable for making pipes. Mimo knows that maximizing the number of blocks is unhelpful to him if half of them are crap. The first time a pipemaker gets an order of blocks and half of them suck, they're going to balk at $35/block and never pay it again. The problem is that Mimo isn't going to sell 3-5 blocks at a time and ship them across the world. It's just not cost effective.

I do want to offer a few words of caution or at least temper the message that seems to have come through. Better briar will not make you a better pipemaker. And you can screw up $50 blocks of briar and they can have pits. And, not every pipemaker who turns out high grade pipes consistently is paying this price for this quality briar. Some of them are just so amazingly good that they can produce what they do from something that would be worthless in someone else's hands. The idea here is, as Love said, to "maximize the potential for success" by procuring better materials. Anyone that tells you "briar is briar" doesn't know their head from a hole in their . . . stummell.

Todd

[KurtHuhn]

I think Romeo is his Mimmo's father. I could be mistaken....

[Gatorade]

gone

[abbeypipes]

I have found that among artisans they are the most critical towards their own and others work I have been involved in woodworking and ceramics and found the same attitude.The crazy thing is the vast majority of the public buy by either the sellers reputation ,or that they like it,I have known a lot of pipesmokers do not know the difference between different briars .When I look at a pipe I am drawn to the overall shape, balance not the grain of the wood ,perfect plateaux is nice if attainable I know that I suffer from perfectionism and I constantly have to remind myself of dropping it,I guess I am saying that lovely grain is not that important in the overal scheme of what makes a good pipe

[jeff]

I would have to disagree with you on that. While a creative and perfectly executed pipe is precisely what every pipe maker and collector is after, I believe that that is next to impossible to attain without a good piece of briar. The fact is that briar, as the medium through which this craft is formed, cannot be so easily discounted as relatively unimportant. A beautifully carved pipe is great, but without great grain it is not perfect. The grain must be considered when making the pipe, that is simply part of becoming a better pipemaker. Poor grain is blasted or rusticated, and straight, even grain is smooth. This is less a matter of personal taste here, and more a matter of common sense. Why show off crappy grain? So, I guess it is obvious where I stand on this issue. Better briar is the way to go.

Jeff

[JHowell]

Hello All,
When I talk to Tom or Jess or Lars or Peter about pipes and about briar I don't ever hear the same sort of stories about the notorious "pit from hell." Point being, there are levels of quality when it comes to briar and unfortunately, you guys are probably getting some of the worst.

Let's see if I have it figured out how to post here. You know, it's the same in every profession, in every craft. How do you get the good stuff? By being in the profession, by keeping your ears and eyes open, by having cahs in hand at the right time. As a clarinetist, after 30 years in the game I'm playing equipment I would have killed for in college. All I can add is that I learned the hard way on the Grecian briar. I ordered single blocks for a while, or five or six at a time, and they sucked. OK, I thought, what I need to do is order enough so that I get the same selection that the guys who sell this stuff (and make a living making pipes) have. I ponied up two grand, ordered a bag of briar, and I can't imagine how anybody would make a living working with this junk. Three out of four blocks are unusable, and I'm not complaining about having to blast or rusticate, they are literally unusable. Huge flaws. Big cracks. Comical dimensions. Most of the blocks are actually worse than what I was getting singly. I can't begin to estimate what this stuff has cost me in lost time.

And, Mimo is Romeo's nickname.

There, let's see if this goes anywhere.

Jack