New guy with equipment question

pipesman · Post by **pipesman** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:24 am

Pipe Gods,

I’m new here, and have been doing a bit of reading here for a while.
I’m wanting to start making pipes, but have a few problems. First a very tight budget, and second I live in an apartment. I do have access to a small garage I can use from time to time, but need small machines so as not to take up a lot of room. My budget at this time is around $200.00; so I need a machine that can perform multiple tasks.
I've been looking at a Delta GR450 variable speed grinder to use as a buffer and as a possible sander/shaper.
The grinder can go down as low as 1725 and up to 3450 RPM's. Since the grinder can go as low as 1725 RPM's this seems from my readings that this is the recommended speed for buffing.
It would be nice to remove one of the grinding wheels and add a sanding disc like the ones Kurt Huhn sells.
It looks as though they have some flexibility to them since the body looks to be rubber. I've seen sanding pads similar to the ones Kurt sells for angle grinders and hand drills at Lowes & Home Depot.
I don't have a good hand drill at this time to use a sanding pad, so what I envision is to mount one of the sanding pads to one side of the grinder and a buffing wheel on the other side. I would like to have one machine be able to perform multiple functions as I hope the grinder could.
So what I am asking is do you all think the Delta variable speed grinder would be a good purchase?

Please throw out any suggestions or links to other possible machines or tools, and thank you all in advance for your help.

Chris

Delta variable speed grinder
http://www.deltaportercable.com/Product ... ctID=11475#

Sanding pad for motor arbor (I wonder if this type of pad could be mounted onto the grinder?)
http://www.pipecrafter.com/pipes/tools/da_pad.php

alan · Post by **alan** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:36 am

I'll leave the advice on the grinder to the others.

I feel you on the apartment living. Be very happy you have even limited access to a garage. I've converted our spare bedroom into my work shop. The bed is wrapped in a tarp. My suits are in a couple of layers of garbage bags to protect them from the dust. The neighbors in the 3 apartments that touch mine all give me the evil eye when they see me.

I'm glad my landlord doesn't give a crap about this place and his tenants or I might be in trouble, even though I avoid beginning to make noise before 10 am and stop at 9 pm or earlier.

pipesman · Post by **pipesman** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:44 am

Alan,

Thanks for the comments; I so visualized your pain.
I am lucky in that I have a relative with a garage near my home, but do not want to take advantage of the situation, by taking over their garage.
I plan to move into a home in a year after my lease is up.
I will be working with predrilled kits to start off since I don’t have a drill of any kind.
What machines do you have in your apartment?

Chris

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:00 am

I checked a couple of places on the web, but none listed the hp rating of the motor. For hobby pipemaking that Delta should be OK, but variable speed on a single phase motor probably means some loss of torque at lower rpm's. This might not be a problem for small projects like pipes. I'm guessing you already know that you'll have to strip off the safety shields and rests.

That backing pad is fine, but you'll still need an arbor like Kurt's to attach it to the motor shaft.

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:08 pm

IF you do go with that slow speed grinder, just be sure that you can mount a buffing wheel on one side if that's what you want to use it for. You may need to find out the shaft size, and how far it protrudes. If it's 1/2" or 5/8", I know you can get buffing wheel arbors for it. Other sizes may require having the arbor custom made.

If you want to run a sanding pad on the other side, using a DA pad like the one's I sell, you'll also need an arbor like the ones I sell. I can pretty much make those arbors to fit any shaft size, so just let me know. I keep the standard ones in stock - 1/2" and 5/8". I'm currently working one that is designed to thread right onto the spindle of the Jet and Delta mini/midi lathes we all know and love. It's in the prototype stages now, and should be production ready by Sunday or so. I'm also working on a model designed to be held in a jacobs chuck - though this is just in the drawing stages now.

pipesman · Post by **pipesman** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:06 pm

Kurt,

The blue motor in your shop with the yellow sanding pad, where would one buy one of these and could it be used as a sander/buffer? Also how much would one of these costs?
Does it meet the 1725RPM buffing speed?
The Delta grinder I was looking at look's to be a size 5/8” arbor but it uses some kind of special non-tool locking screw. Unfortunately it does not seem to say in the owner’s manual the size. I looked again today at it, and it seems the same size of large 7” angle grinder. Not sure if the sanding pads you sell would work on the grinder machine.
The grinder will accept a buffing wheel; Delta advertises them as an accessory for the grinder.
I may have to just wait and buy a stand alone motor like the one you use.
By the way great work on the knives I noticed on your blog and gallery. This is another area I would to delve into in the future. Luckily living in Texas, we have quit a few (every weekend) gun shows, with many knife makers at them to talk with.

Chris

alan · Post by **alan** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:58 pm

Up until xmas I had only a power drill and a dremel. Xmas eve I traded a churchwarden for a drill press, and my wonderful father gave me a bandsaw as my main gift. Yay for the pops!

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:23 am

pipesman wrote: The blue motor in your shop with the yellow sanding pad, where would one buy one of these and could it be used as a sander/buffer? Also how much would one of these costs?

A few years ago there was a seller on eBay with the ID westbestbuy. He had about a hundred of these motors for a very reasonable price - $71 shipped to my door, if I recall correctly. For a Baldor motor like this, that's a relative steal.

As well as eBay, other places to get good, inexpensive electrical motors are:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/categor ... key=275020
http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?U ... yword=MBAD

For the purposes of shaping, sanding, and buffing, a 1/4 to 1/3 HP motor is quite sufficient.

As far as buffing, yes. There are arbors out there designed to accept buffing wheels with 1/2" holes and attach to the motor shaft via a couple set screws. They get the job done, but they're not incredibly convenient unless you dedicate one motor to each compound and wax you're going to use. If you don't, you have to remove the arbor and wheel each time you want to change compounds.

But I'm working on a solution to that.

Does it meet the 1725RPM buffing speed?

Yes. I find this to be the best all-around RPM speed for motors. YMMV.

The Delta grinder I was looking at look's to be a size 5/8” arbor but it uses some kind of special non-tool locking screw. Unfortunately it does not seem to say in the owner’s manual the size. I looked again today at it, and it seems the same size of large 7” angle grinder. Not sure if the sanding pads you sell would work on the grinder machine.
The grinder will accept a buffing wheel; Delta advertises them as an accessory for the grinder.

6" grinders typically have a 1/2" shaft, while 8" grinders typically use a 5/8" shaft. It's possible that the grinder you found is different, but since those are the standard grinding wheel through-hole sizes, I doubt it. If you know the model number, you can look it up on Delta's site.

That said, there's no guarantee that the grinder will take my arbor. It could, but I don't have one here to look at and determine. I'd need pretty detailed photos of the shaft to make that determination.

I may have to just wait and buy a stand alone motor like the one you use.
By the way great work on the knives I noticed on your blog and gallery. This is another area I would to delve into in the future. Luckily living in Texas, we have quit a few (every weekend) gun shows, with many knife makers at them to talk with.

Thank you! I'm only aware of one full-time knife maker in here in Rhode Island, and even though he's only a few miles from me, I don't think I've ever met him. He's mostly a high-end collectible and art knife maker - he makes some incredibly beautiful stuff.

I am working on other arbor configurations other than the one that fits on motor shafts. I'll post here when they're ready.

Vermont Freehand · Post by **Vermont Freehand** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:47 am

my $0.02......

I have a couple old shopsmith machines which you can typically find for a couple hundred dollars or less. I use mine for all drilling of blocks, sanding, shaping, and buffing. The only other tools I use are a dremel and a bandsaw. A hand coping saw with an aggressive tooth should work if you do not have a bandsaw.

morefifemusicanyone · Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:32 am

As a relative newbie myself, take my opinions with a grain of salt.

I had a lowes gift card for christmas, so I went to see what I could find. I had my eye on a bench grinder, but only having 50 bucks to work with, I didn't want to spring extra for the 8" one. I ended up buying a delta 6". The difference in min var speed is 1725 RPM for the 8" and 2000 RPM for the 6".

The last 6" they had was the display model, so the guy bumped it down to 50 bucks. Then we tried taking off the grinding wheels to get a peek at how things connected (I too was nervous about the quick change adapter). He couldn't get one of the grinding wheels off, so he said he would treat it like a damaged item and give it to me for 25 bucks. I figured sure.

Took it home and a little prying got the second wheel off with no problem.

Anyway, the quick change advertised just means that the metal axle part (being new, I am not sure what to call this part) is threaded to accept the quick change nuts. They take up a lot of surface area and are not idea for sanding disks. I replaced it with a cheap arbor and motor adapter from lowes as well as a plastic sanding backing and adhesive sanding disks. Not ideal, but we've gotta start somewhere and the price was right for me right now. It seems to work fine for sanding applications. I am not sure if it will be too fast for buffing, but if I calculated SFPM correctly, based on the smaller wheel size, I can actually achieve less SFPM at 2000 RPMS on a 6" wheel than I can at 1725 RPMS on an 8" wheel. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

I like the grinder and think it works pretty good. With your larger budget there might be better alternatives, but I am quite satisfied for a budget tool.

Good luck!

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:06 pm

morefifemusicanyone wrote:Anyway, the quick change advertised just means that the metal axle part (being new, I am not sure what to call this part) is threaded to accept the quick change nuts.

....I can actually achieve less SFPM at 2000 RPMS on a 6" wheel than I can at 1725 RPMS on an 8" wheel. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

I like the grinder and think it works pretty good. With your larger budget there might be better alternatives, but I am quite satisfied for a budget tool.

It's usually referred to as the motor shaft, but folks will know what you mean.

You're quite correct, the important thing is SFPM, so you're fine there.

As long as you're satisfied with what you have, that's all that matters.