Toxic Materials

[AaronWhitehouse0077]

I had heard from another pipe maker that some materials can't be used because they are Toxic. Does anyone know of any such materials? I looked threw the Alternative Materials section and found nothing.

[Sasquatch]

Well, there's a few ways of looking at it.

Methyl alcohol is toxic as hell. That said, it's a fantastic base for powdered stains. It dries really fast and leaves absolutely no residue. I use it, because it's convenient, cheap, works well, and has no ill effects on the final product. I could use isopropyl alcohol to similar effect.

There is a green honing compound (for metals) that cuts a lot of different materials really effectively, but I don't use that on pipes because a) it's green b) it's toxic due to the chromium content and c) other things work better.

Let's face it - smoking is a dumb idea, health wise, and making pipes is a dumb idea, health wise. But then, so is being a firefighter, and people do that too.

Briar dust is not good for you. Wear a mask, vacuum your shop. Vulcanite dust is not good for you. Wear a mask, vacuum your shop. Stains, paints, polishes.... none of these things are good for you, in a chronic exposure kind of way. So stay away from it all, yeah?

From a more practical "we're all gonna die someday, boy" point of view, I can't think of too many commonly available items that would make a pipe inherently more dangerous to the end user. Perhaps a stem made from antler or something that was carrying what.... elephant anthrax? Seems a bit unlikely.

Carnauba wax (pure) is food safe, which is one of many reasons it is used as a finish, particularly on the mouthpiece.

The tonquin in my 1792 Flake is probably worse for me than anything in or on any of my pipes.

Now, a guy could argue that making a briar pipe from some strange African hardwood that is full of toxins (to repel insects, apparently) would be a bad idea, and I would agree with that. We use briar, olive, meer and clay, for a reason.

Stay away from automobile parts, don't use anti-freeze for that neat shiny green stain, etc.

Nice avatar, BTW.

[AaronWhitehouse0077]

Wasn't planning on Automobile parts, or Anti-freeze but you know I have some former friends who are well for lack of a better term pot heads, they might just turn a muffler or a transmission into a pipe and stain it with anti-freeze.

And as far as toxic materials to the pipe maker I'm not as concerned you do what you like and you do what is fun, or so it is said and that is me, but I don't want to sell something to someone that will make them sick. Or make something that might make me really sick if I smoke out of it. Not tobacco possible cancer or emphasima sick.

[KurtHuhn]

For pipe materials, I'd shy away from rosewoods of all kinds. Those seem to have oils in them that are listed as irritants. In fact, any of the really oily woods that are not also fruit or nut woods might be a bad idea to use as a pipe bowls.

For decorative rings and such, they will be fine however.

[Sasquatch]

It's a personal thing too - I am rather strangely allergic to butternut. I got a tiny butternut sliver once, and my whole hand went funny. Other guys I know have never had a problem with it, but react horribly to woods that don't bother me at all.

[AaronWhitehouse0077]

So in some cases some woods wouldn't be a good idea. Maybe for ornimental, but not for functionality. Thanks for the info.

[blacksmithtim]

Where would ebony fall in terms of safety?

I know varieties are used in musical instruments so they aren't grossly toxic, of course, but hot smoke isn't drawn through clarinets while playing (except, maybe, in some jazz performances ).

Have a few pieces and was thinking they might make some nice stems as a change from vulcanite.

[kbadkar]

I'd nix the wood stem idea.

[Alan L]

I used a little chunk of ebony as an extension once, and didn't line it with anything. It cracked from the hot moisture after about four smokes.

This was actual ebony, Diospyros sp. I understand Blackwood is a little more resistant.

[blacksmithtim]

To kbadkar and Alan L.

I'll do a bit more research. I might try it just because I like to try things if the indications look good.

I've made one piece pipes before of apple and walnut which seemed to work OK, and have one that someone gave me which is very simple and the stem is pine of all things. Not the greatest smoke but not bad.

Just didn't want to be surprised by anything like a rosewood which I have also heard can be irritating at least.

[alan]

Ignoring that it would also catch on fire, avoid the pine woods.

Cherry is good but needs to be broken in very slowly. It is soft and wants to char in a bad way if you get too excited.

I've also tried some walnut, but that tasted terrible. One smoke and it ended up helping heat my house on a cold winter night.

[blacksmithtim]

On this topic, I have heard, but not confirmed, that Walnut can be toxic.

[flix]

On this topic, I have heard, but not confirmed, that Walnut can be toxic.

Haven't heard that one. That would be very helpful to get a source for that information.

[Skip]

Several years ago we sold a high end Bjarne to a local customer. It had a long shank, about 3 inches. The shank was turned ebony. It split. We sent it back to Bjarne who replaced it. As soon as the customer smoked it again the replacement split. Bjarne had one that was just like it that he had smoked for years and it never split.
I would reserve ebony for external rings ect, but that is just me.

Skip

[blacksmithtim]

I've been poking around on the walnut toxicity question a bit more of late.

The clearest on line reference is at http://www.mnwoodturners.com/New_Member ... Chart.html

It is specific to black walnut and mentions both dust and wood as a "sensitizer" to eyes and skin.

Other sites talk only about agricultural and horticultural toxicity.

There are several references to horses being particularly succeptable to skin problems is there is walnut in their bedding.

The woodworker I know locally has basically said "No way in hell would I make a pipe out of walnut. I know it can poison horses and I'm not going to smoke from anything that can do that. I've got plenty of cherry scrap."

That's what I've found so far.

"The roots of Black Walnut (Juglans nigra L.) and Butternut (Juglans cinerea L.) produce a substance known as juglone (5-hydroxy-alphanapthaquinone). Persian (English or Carpathian) walnut trees are sometimes grafted onto black walnut rootstocks."

Elsewhere it mentions that (not surprisingly), juglone is concentrated in buds.

Other sites mention that it's used without trouble in bowls and cutting boards (and that the toxicity of juglone may help reduce bacteria and the like).

The gunstock walnut I have is pretty porus so I'm not sure it would suit the purpose anyway. And it's unlikely to be black walnut.

I'm not clear at all if juglone is present in other walnut woods, if there is sufficient in a little block of walnut to do anything, or if enough would leech from handling and into the smoke to be an issue.

Since I brought it up I thought I'd share what I've found so far.

[Alan L]

It's that darned "sensitizer" effect that's the problem. Walnut doesn't bother me, although it does make me taste chocolate if I get a snootfull of fine dust.

Cherry, on the other hand, causes instant bad flu-like symptoms if I get into any dust.

Is it toxic? No, it won't kill you. I know a few people who have those symptoms with woods like cocobolo, but didn't have a problem until they'd been using it for a long time.

All of this is argument for a good dust-collection system and a submicron air filtration unit, eh?

[blacksmithtim]

Well, there are two concerns.

There is the hazard in manufacture, and that of smoking from the thing.

I don't work with wood enough to worry the exposure too much. And when I do I lean toward hand powered tools that tend to shave and scrape rather than raise dust. That doesn't negate what others might be dealing with.

And then there is the question of what happens to these things when a 500 degree plus fire is going inside the wood for 10-30 minutes. What is released? Is it incidental?

I've tried a crude walnut pipe before I had heard about things and never noticed a thing.

But now that I've gotten to wondering I think I'll stick with fruit woods for my pipe crafting from domestic materials. And maple.

Have some notions about some rustic pipes of apple and maple, or a mixture. The walnut is on hold.

[dpool0859]

Along the line of suitable wood for a pipe bowl does anyone know about a type of wood called Amizique. I found a very nice looking piece for a good price from a local hardwood vendor but can't find any info. It's native
to Mexico / Central America. I know briar is generally the wood of choice but wanted to try something different.

[pipedreamer]

There is a wood called arizona tail root and also goes by the name of chicken wood. The Chinese use it for those beautiful chests etc. It is used for pipe making also. Great wood, grain is nice,best polished with bees wax, due to a more porous grain.Not toxic and usually inexpensive. Smokes good also.

[Literaryworkshop]

There are so many good hardwoods appropriate for pipes that you don't usually need to go to the marginal stuff. It's important to know that different people have different sensitivities to different wood, especially fine dust. I can't tolerate blackwood dust, for example, which is too bad as I think it would make a fine pipe. But I'm fine with woods like walnut that bother other people. However, being sensitive to dust or splinters doesn't mean you'll react at all to the finished wood. I can handle blackwood all day with no problems, but one saw cut sends me sneezing. Wood doesn't release many toxins just sitting there. Heating it up might be a different story. I'm not sure there's much solid data on what different woods do when heated to a couple hundred degrees, as most wood products are never intended to be heated up regularly. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence here and there, but not much reliable evidence.

I know that different woods emit different odors when burned or charred (thick about hickory, apple, and mesquite here), but all wood smoke is toxic. I'm not aware of any wood smoke that's considered significantly more toxic than others.

Then again, as Sasquatch said, you're already exposing yourself to toxins every time you light up the pipe, and I'm guessing that what's in the tobacco smoke will be more toxic than almost anything coming from the wood itself.

That said, here are a few things I've picked up along the way:

- Butternut does indeed have toxins in the wood, and it can leach out. It's not recommended for anything that would come in contact with food and would probably not be a good choice for a pipe either.
- Walnut is iffy. It is routinely used for cutting boards, so it's safe for incidental food contact, but the dust can be an irritant. I've known some people to love walnut pipes and other people to hate them.
- Resinous woods (pine, spruce, etc.) should be avoided. Yew and cedar both have toxins in them. Of course, treated lumber is totally out of the question.
- Wenge splinters are often irritants. I avoid working with the stuff, but I have no idea whether it would smoke well or not.
- Oaks have tannins in them. I'm guessing it would affect the flavor of the smoke, but I don't know.