Question About Ebonite Smell

Kettletrigger · Post by **Kettletrigger** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:50 pm

Mike Messer wrote:PME said the rod I purchased from them was not SEM. They would not tell me who manufactured it, but said it was from Hamburg. Otherwise, I can't say for sure if SEM is better until I get some SEM rods, but I feel reasonably sure that my posts are accurate. I never said ebonite should smell like roses, I said it should not smell like sewer-gas. SEM agreed and explained the reasons in their email. But, like I said, I can't say for sure until I get some SEM rods and try them. I think it's important to get this right, all B.S. aside.

Mike, please post your findings on the new ebonite when it arrives. I'm a newbie pipemaker and am interested to hear how it compares to the previous piece that you tried.

kbadkar · Post by **kbadkar** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:00 pm

You smell that? Do you smell that? Ebonite, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of ebonite in the morning. You know, one time we had a stem shaped, for twelve hours. When it was all over I buffed it up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' inclusion or scratch. The smell, you know that sulfur smell, the whole shop. Smelled like … progress.

RadDavis · Post by **RadDavis** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:48 pm

Mike Messer wrote:I know it is posible to make Ebonite that does not smell awful for weeks after it is cut, ref. my post about the Guidici stems. Bottom line, if I were a Pipe Dealer or a Collector, what I would call premium, state-of-the-art, I am sure would not make me sick at my stomach to smell. Think about that. I may be of some help to you more experienced guys in that I have not adjusted to accept this, and maybe, neither should you.

Mike,

Giudici Stems are a different formulation of vulcanite because they are molded, not extruded. They are harder and the quality is not the same as extruded rod, and no, they don't smell as bad. You're comparing apples to oranges and complaining that the oranges aren't smooth and red.

I know you're trying to help all of us "experienced" pipe makers who've "adjusted to the smell", but please don't come on a forum where the experienced are trying to help the inexperienced and tell them that they are doing it all wrong. You asked the question, and it was answered by several pipe makers who've been at it a while. Just because you don't think it should smell like that doesn't mean that it won't.

Rad

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:48 pm

kbadkar wrote:You smell that? Do you smell that? Ebonite, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of ebonite in the morning. You know, one time we had a stem shaped, for twelve hours. When it was all over I buffed it up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' inclusion or scratch. The smell, you know that sulfur smell, the whole shop. Smelled like … progress.

Oh, Kris. I just laughed so hard I think I pissed myself! Well done!

Mike Messer · Post by **Mike Messer** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:53 pm

If Rad is correct about the Apples and Oranges, then I am wrong, but, don't think that just because I am new to classic pipemaking, that I am an ignorant dumb-ass you can bully around. I will verify this for myself, and I will post the results of my future tests here for your information, so there will be no mistake. It will be a while, though, I can't just run out and buy everything in sight, I have to watch my spending. I may also get into it with the manufacturers like SEM, if their rod smells as bad as the rod in question.
I appreciate all you guys commenting, for or against. Maybe we can accomplish something.

Mike Messer · Post by **Mike Messer** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:54 pm

Oh, and piss-off, Kurt.

Sasquatch · Post by **Sasquatch** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:56 pm

Agreed Kurt - that's the post of the month.

Mike, do as you see fit, I guess. In the mean time, the rest of us have pipes to make.

Mike Messer · Post by **Mike Messer** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:01 pm

Just kiddin, Kurt, No Offense

ToddJohnson · Post by **ToddJohnson** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:17 pm

Mike Messer wrote:If Rad is correct about the Apples and Oranges, then I am wrong, but, don't think that just because I am new to classic pipemaking, that I am an ignorant dumb-ass you can bully around. I will verify this for myself, and I will post the results of my future tests here for your information, so there will be no mistake. It will be a while, though, I can't just run out and buy everything in sight, I have to watch my spending. I may also get into it with the manufacturers like SEM, if their rod smells as bad as the rod in question.
I appreciate all you guys commenting, for or against. Maybe we can accomplish something.

From the way this is going, I might suggest you try Ultem instead of vulcanite. Just don't forget to scrape off the crispy bits.

Todd

Mike Messer · Post by **Mike Messer** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:58 pm

ToddJohnson wrote:
You may be sure that your "posts are accurate," but they're not. In fact, they're basically a whole bunch of nonsense. Vulcanite from every single source in the world smells bad--including from SEM--and just because you've convinced yourself otherwise doesn't make it so. There are, of course, good reasons to reject vulcanite--too many metal inclusions, won't polish up to a mirror shine, bubbles, etc. Smell, however, is not a reasonable or useful criterion by which to judge its' quality. You've pronounced your premolded bits "superior" in quality to the rod stock you got, but you don't have even the faintest clue of which standards to judge by. I'll give you a hint though; drilling an eighth inch hole and then smelling it to see if it gives off a "sewer gas" smell isn't one of them.

TJ

I disagree, Todd, and the clue was not faint at all, but a very Foul Smell that jumped out at you, and I think it is significant, and not nonsense. Now, agreed, molded stems have on huge problem, you can't do free form work for your free form pipes, huge problem, and some of them are unuseable altogether for reasons mentioned, but the basic material is THE BIG QUESTION, the basic vulcanized rubber marterial. Maybe it is imposible to make rods that don't smell very bad, but I have some excellent molded stems that I have turned and filed and reshaped and sanded and polished to a mirror finish, and they also don't smell awful. I want it all, you understand, and I want you guys to have it all, too. So, we're not really disagreeing, deep down. So, we will see. Later.

Mike Messer · Post by **Mike Messer** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:10 pm

Ebonite, Vulcanized Rubber, Vulcanite, hard rubber, the classic material. I have pipes that are 40 or 50 years old with ebonite tips. I think nothing else will do.

ToddJohnson · Post by **ToddJohnson** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:32 pm

Mike, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and worse, you have no idea that you have no idea what you're talking about. Your "experiments" aren't going to prove anything or help anyone. What they may do is hurt upstanding folks like Pipe Makers Emporium since there may be readers who are naive, gullible, or ignorant enough not to realize you're completely full of it. All your babbling about molded stems is irrelevant too. I don't care if you use molded stems, rod stock, or paintbrush handles. My only point is that smell is not an indicator either of quality or the lack of quality. Ebonite rod stock has a foul smell when you work with it, period. It's SUPPOSED TO SMELL LIKE THAT. By the way, next time you drive by a paper mill you should stop, go in, and tell the plant manager they must be using tainted wood pulp because you just know it shouldn't smell like that.

Todd

baweaverpipes · Post by **baweaverpipes** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:28 pm

Mike Messer wrote:
ToddJohnson wrote:
You may be sure that your "posts are accurate," but they're not. In fact, they're basically a whole bunch of nonsense. Vulcanite from every single source in the world smells bad--including from SEM--and just because you've convinced yourself otherwise doesn't make it so. There are, of course, good reasons to reject vulcanite--too many metal inclusions, won't polish up to a mirror shine, bubbles, etc. Smell, however, is not a reasonable or useful criterion by which to judge its' quality. You've pronounced your premolded bits "superior" in quality to the rod stock you got, but you don't have even the faintest clue of which standards to judge by. I'll give you a hint though; drilling an eighth inch hole and then smelling it to see if it gives off a "sewer gas" smell isn't one of them.

TJ

I disagree, Todd, and the clue was not faint at all, but a very Foul Smell that jumped out at you, and I think it is significant, and not nonsense. Now, agreed, molded stems have on huge problem, you can't do free form work for your free form pipes, huge problem, and some of them are unuseable altogether for reasons mentioned, but the basic material is THE BIG QUESTION, the basic vulcanized rubber marterial. Maybe it is imposible to make rods that don't smell very bad, but I have some excellent molded stems that I have turned and filed and reshaped and sanded and polished to a mirror finish, and they also don't smell awful. I want it all, you understand, and I want you guys to have it all, too. So, we're not really disagreeing, deep down. So, we will see. Later.

Balderdash! I used pre-molded stems for some time, all of them stink. Even vintage (50+ years old) stink. Ebonite stinks, molded stems stink, blasting SE stinks, Todd stinks and Rad does after visiting farm animals.
Vintage Dunhill stems stink, unless buffed and polished. Vomit stinks, even with it starting out smellin' pretty good. Guidici stems stink. Turn any pre-molded stem and it stinks.

Danskpibemager · Post by **Danskpibemager** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:38 pm

I made a stem out of SEM rodstock this afternoon and it smelled like buffalo farts. Never met an Ebonite that didn't stink. You guys are funny, great entertainment for a Saturday night.

Kevin

Sasquatch · Post by **Sasquatch** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:44 pm

It's buffalo farts! I KNEW I knew that smell.

RadDavis · Post by **RadDavis** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:42 am

I have no experience with buffalo farts.

And Mike,

No one is trying to bully you around. It's just that when a newbie pipe maker comes up with a question that the more experienced pipes makers know the answer to, and they give him that answer, and he says essentially, "I don't think it has be that way! And you guys shouldn't be putting up with it.", life gets a bit tedious, and the newbie becomes a know-it-all pain in the ass.

You've gotten the answer as to why the one ebonite rod you've had experience with smells worse that your molded stems. You've gotten that answer from pipe makers with combined experience of probably 20-25 years of working with the stuff.

Many new pipemakers have tried to re-invent the wheel. The results are never better than the original.

Rad

Mike Messer · Post by **Mike Messer** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:15 pm

Okay, I have a SEM order pending, and when I get it I will either verify, or refute what all of you have been saying, and maybe, clear this up. I have no ego attachment or investment to defend, and I don't care who is right, you or me, just so it is right. ...As for the insults and the bullying, don't worry about it. I'm not that sensitive, tough as hell, actually. I was a West Point Cadet, and you don't know what bullying is until you've had three upperclassmen jump you in triangulation, one in your face and one yelling in each ear. ... No problem.

daniel · Post by **daniel** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:02 am

im very sorry for you mike,
this topic sadly reminds me of the shit i used write on net when i was about
13 years old. the attitude is the thing, your last post only made it clear.
i´m also sorry that some one jumped on your head,
i saw it once on television, and i recall the guy had a serious brain damage.

edit:
by that i don´t mean that you would have anything wrong in your head.

Mike Messer · Post by **Mike Messer** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:36 pm

ToddJohnson wrote:... My only point is that smell is not an indicator either of quality or the lack of quality. Ebonite rod stock has a foul smell when you work with it, period. It's SUPPOSED TO SMELL LIKE THAT...
Todd

Okay Todd, read the email reply I got from SEM-Hitzaker. They know a lot about ebonite, you must agree. The bad smell is from too much sulfur. There are many, posible formulations for vulcanized rubber, and an infinite number of posible methods and quality control effects, and all ebonite is not the same.
I am talking about degrees. Maybe you skipped school the day they taught Chemistry. Sorry, I had to say that, and this. It is you, and not I who doesn't have a clue. I am trying to keep this objective. It's a technical issue, not a personal issue. Okay?

Mike Messer · Post by **Mike Messer** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:49 pm

daniel wrote:...im very sorry for you mike....

Thanks, daniel,
I appreciate your concern, but I'm okay. You don't have to feel sorry for me. No one jumped on my head at West Point; they just yell at you. It's training, and it helps you learn to keep your cool when you're under fire in military combat, when all hell is breaking loose around you.
Mike