Question About Ebonite Smell

[Mike Messer]

... but I think, if I am not mistaken, I am not the one who is pushing, here.

M.M.

You are mistaken. But still, your struggles with this new craft illustrates to other newbies how important it is to skip the excessive investigations and move on to the more creative and informative process of making a pipe.

Edit: MM, you keep going back and editing your comments, now the one above disappeared. Live with a post in the past and move on to the next.

It was too harsh, so I changed it, just a few minutes later.

And I'm not sure what you mean about "excessive investigations" but if I had accepted the opinions of others, here, in the beginning of this topic, about the Smelly Ebonite Rod, I would now be using, what I consider to be an unacceptably disgusting material in my pipes. I will keep investigating until I get to a satisfactory conclusion. Okay?

[Frank]

Mike, I mean no offence with my following remarks, it is meant purely constructively. Your resistance to see what the experienced pipemakers are saying is blinding you to the validity of their remarks. Perhaps it isn't obvious to you, but to the experienced eye your reworked Guidici still looks like a reworked premolded - that is a fact not an opinion.

You have to accept that Todd sometimes tends to shit coat his remarks rather than candy coat them. That's his way - you either live with it or live without his advice, which would be your loss not his.

The main point that he and Rad are now trying to make is that if you're satisfied with with your productions, regardless of what would be acceptable to knowledgeable pipe collectors, then there is nothing more that they can teach you in this field. As a hobbyist you have only to satisfy yourself, whereas as professional pipemakers they have to please the pipe collecting world at large. With mouths to feed, kids to educate and mistresses to support, they don't have the luxury of being able to make pipes that are pleasing to them alone. That is the point they're trying to make.

[Mike Messer]

(Quote the above post)

I'm not a hobbiest...more to follow...
If I do anything, I am dead serious about it. I don't play.
Sometimes I'm looking for information, or advivce, sometimes I'm looking for an open discussion, and sometimes I'm giving advice.
Understand, I may be new to pipemaking, but I am not new to this world. I'm 61 years old, and I first cut out a piece of wood on a bandsaw when I was 8 years old. Since then I have worked with many materials and crafts, so don't talk down to me like I'm an ignorant little kid, Okay?
...more to follow...
It irritates me.
Todd is okay, You too, All of you, actually, might burn me sometimes, but I can take it, no problem.
You might get burned, also, but it's constructive.

[Mike Messer]

Mike, I mean no offence with my following remarks, it is meant purely constructively. Your resistance to see what the experienced pipemakers are saying is blinding you to the validity of their remarks. Perhaps it isn't obvious to you, but to the experienced eye your reworked Guidici still looks like a reworked premolded - that is a fact ....

Tell it to Teddy Knudsen, Frank (Sorry, Frank, you seem like a decent fellow).
M.M.

[RadDavis]

Mike, if you can't see the difference between the Teddy stem and a Guidici 231, then that is going to be problematic for you, if you intend to be a professional pipe maker.

Rad

[Mike Messer]

Mike, if you can't see the difference between the Teddy stem and a Guidici 231, then that is going to be problematic for you, if you intend to be a professional pipe maker.

Rad

Okay, Rad, what is the difference?
There probably is a difference, but it isn't obvious in the pictures, and if you read his descriptions on his web site he says, "Mouthpieces are made out of ebonite" and he does not use the word "handmade."
I may have problems as a pipemaker, who can say, time will tell, but fine point descrimination won't be my problem. I'm on it.

[Frank]

I'm not a hobbiest...
If I do anything, I am dead serious about it. I don't play.

In order to avoid insulting your sensibilities, perhaps you could enlighten me as to where you currently see yourself in the pipemaking business. Are you an amateur, a novice, an apprentice, a journeyman or a master? I'm not being sarcastic, I would just like to know.

[Mike Messer]

...I'm not being sarcastic, I would just like to know.

No offense, I'm not being sarcastic...but, "Bullshit," I'd like to stick to relevant information, not some bullshit little list of labels you conjure up that mean nothing.
M.M.

[Frank]

I'm not being sarcastic...but, "Bullshit." I'd like to stick to relevant information, not some bullshit little label you conjure up that means nothing.
M.M.

"shrug" Thanks, "Random" twin, that's all I needed to know. Enjoy the forum.

[Mike Messer]

I'm not being sarcastic...but, "Bullshit." I'd like to stick to relevant information, not some bullshit little label you conjure up that means nothing.
M.M.

"shrug" Thanks, "Random" twin, that's all I needed to know. Enjoy the forum.

If you can't take the heat, Frank, stay out of the kitchen.

much later edit: Sorry, Frank, it was a cheap, back-stabbing shot. Please, don't have me killed.

[bikedoctor]

Sooo. How bout them Saints??? Anyone need anything while I'm up?

[RadDavis]

There probably is a difference, but it isn't obvious in the pictures,

The fact that you don't see the obvious differences is what's going to cause you problems in pipe making. You very much need to educate your eyes. You need to become visually literate.

These things can be learned, and your eyes can be educated, but not unless you first admit to yourself that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Rad

[Mike Messer]

There probably is a difference, but it isn't obvious in the pictures,

The fact that you don't see the obvious differences is what's going to cause you problems in pipe making. You very much need to educate your eyes. You need to become visually literate.

These things can be learned, and your eyes can be educated, but not unless you first admit to yourself that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Rad

I'm not being argumentative, Rad, but seriously, you still did not answer the question. What is the difference?
Just name one or two little things you see. Or don't, I don't care. I don't think we are all in as much disagreement as it would seem, here.
I think I'm gonna go eat something, in the kitchen, something cold, no blood, peanut butter and honey on whole wheat.

[KurtHuhn]

Sooo. How bout them Saints??? Anyone need anything while I'm up?

ROFL!!!

[KurtHuhn]

Mike, not everyone is as patient and understanding as Rad is, and I fear you may be alienating the folks that could provide the most help to you. The biggest help for you would be to look at both your stem and the Knudsen stem, and see if you can spot the differences. This is part of developing the eye that you'll need in order to make a premold stem not look like one. We could tell you, but for this exercise (let's call it that) I'm interested to see if you can notice them while viewing your own work with a critical eye.

And before anyone thinks I'm some kind of expert at the above, I can only point to an unfinished "blowfish" pipe (not discus!) that's been sitting on my desk for about 6 months while I try to reconcile this example against other makers. Mine, for what it's worth, isn't nearly as elegant. I think I know why, but have yet to take it back to the shop and try to fix it.

[Mike Messer]

I know the posible differences, but you can't see them in the picture, and that's probably why no one has answered the question.
I am just rolling the idea for the sake of discussion, so, that no stone is left unturned.
Sorry, if I alienate someone, once in a while, things kind-of heat up a bit, and they usually took a cheap shot at me, first, or some kind of veiled shot. I try to ignore it, but sometimes I have to shoot back.
Bottom line, this is a technical discussion about pipemaking.

[RadDavis]

I know the posible differences, but you can't see them in the picture,

Wrong.

Compare the tapers on the flat parts of both stems. Look at the edges. If you can see no differences, then that's a problem for you. It can be overcome, but it has to be learned. If you keep insisting you're right, you'll make no progress.

Rad

[Kettletrigger]

...still, your struggles with this new craft illustrates to other newbies how important it is to skip the excessive investigations and move on to the more creative and informative process of making a pipe.

Among all of the chest-pounding going on in this topic, this statement in particular is a complete load of shit. I, for one, am a big fan of excessive investigation into damn near everything. This topic does nothing except encourage me to question the status quo even more.

Participation in this topic, this thread, and this hobby is voluntary. It seems to me that some of the more experienced members here feel the need to play policeman and keep a tight leash on the ways that newbies approach pipemaking. Regardless of whether Mike's approach is wrong or right I applaud his desire to find out why things are done the way they are, even if it's perceived as common knowledge to the more experienced members.

[Sasquatch]

The freedom to explore is one thing, and we all do it.

Taking a clock apart to locate the "tick" is another. Or, if you prefer a stronger metaphor, going into someone's house and taking a crap in his living room and then telling him that's where the toilet ought to have been, is another.

[RadDavis]

Or, if you prefer a stronger metaphor, going into someone's house and taking a crap in his living room and then telling him that's where the toilet ought to have been, is another.

Spot on.

Rad