Question About Ebonite Smell

[KurtHuhn]

That sulfurous ebonite smell is slowly being replaced by the smell of fascism.

Actually, it isn't fascism. Since it's my board, my server, and my bandwidth, it's really a dictatorship.

The bottom line is, even though there are some participants on this board that can be abrasive, the advice they give is typically sound. You just have to get past the delivery and distill out what you need. And anyone who's been on the board for a while probably knows that I'm not exactly the best at dealing with snarktastic remarks, despite my typically patient and easy going demeanor.

But jeez, is the tinfoil not blocking enough radio waves or what? This is about as bad as I've seen it in months.

Take a breath everyone. Or a drink. Or go out back and chop some firewood. Or scream "SERENITY NOW". Whatever helps....

[Frank]

This has been vastly entertaining, but didn't Kurt settle this some time ago? The offending sample turned out to be merely typical. I'd be happy to provide disposal service for anyone who has any of that toxic Hamburg rod polluting his shop.
Jack

The thread now also includes the question "Are Premoldeds as good as Rod Stock if reworked correctly?".

[JHowell]

This has been vastly entertaining, but didn't Kurt settle this some time ago? The offending sample turned out to be merely typical. I'd be happy to provide disposal service for anyone who has any of that toxic Hamburg rod polluting his shop.
Jack

The thread now also includes the question "Are Premoldeds as good as Rod Stock if reworked correctly?".

What do you mean, good? If cheaper is better, then premolded stems are better.

Use whatever you want, that's my advice. If you and your customers are happy with them, who cares what I think? If anybody wants to know what I think, then no, they're not as good. They might be if you couldn't tell the difference, but I haven't seen an example like that. The molded stems, even if their shape and airway can be disguised, aren't as deeply black, don't polish as well, and if they have any age, oxidize more quickly. It is my understanding that the rubber preparation required for injection molding into a complex shape is softer, more fluid, and more sulfurous than the preparation for molded rods.

I think acrylic, which cures by catalyzing rather than vulcanization, shows less quality variation between prepared mouthpieces and cast rod. If I were determined to use premolded stems, I'd probably go with acrylic. There is, at least, some percentage of the market that prefers acrylic stems and is willing to buy an artisan pipe with one. Tinsky, Becker, et al. Molded vulcanite, not so much.

Jack

[ToddJohnson]

Are newbies to this forum metaphorical guests in your home? If so, a simple disclaimer at the top of the main page informing newbies that their opinions have less value than yours would save us all a lot of time.

Hey Kurt, can you jump on that?

Thanks,

Todd

[Mike Messer]

I gotta say some of you guys are incapable of being objective, and maybe it's because you have a vested interest to defend, or maybe you'ze jus stupid. I don't know what your problem is and I don't care.
Forget this noise.

[ToddJohnson]

I'm quoting directly from my ©1965 copy of According to Hoyle–Arguments, Debates and General Ballyhoo:

"While the use of Fascism, Hitler or the Nazi Party in an argument is cause for immediate disqualification, there are exceptions to this rule. Namely, Caveat 3.45.A, which states that 'Any naming of one of the three entities listed above shall not be cause for disqualification if it is used as an anecdotal descriptor to the argument, and not part of the argument itself. Section 36.DD states that 'The rule regarding disqualification shall be rendered null and void after a period of 40 years from date of publication, at which point the According to Hoyle Panel of Docents and Judges will vote upon its renewal.'"

While I very much appreciate your love of old and outdated books--I collect first editions myself--I'm afraid that's not exactly what I was referring to. Besides, I was never much for structuralism or similar such positivistic nonsense. Additionally, the "According to Hoyle Panel of Docents and Judges" promised to vote again in 2005, which they apparently did not, so I guess they'll have to be dismissed out of hand. Bummer.

I was referring to what's sometimes called "Godwin's Law," and it's intended to apply directly to online web forums, blogs, etc. I think Godwin refers specifically to the invocation of Nazis, but you'll allow me the latitude to include Fascism too won't you?

So Todd, unless you can come up with a ©2005 or newer copy of According to Hoyle–Arguments, Debates and General Ballyhoo that shows that those words have been voted back in, I didn't lose.

I never said you "lost." I only meant to imply that you are a loser. The differences are subtle, I know, but you seem like a detail oriented guy.

Which apparently means that I win.

Can we just call it a draw? I like it better when everybody wins.

A groveling heartfelt apology is all the prize I need, thank you very much. Failing that, I'll accept the following poem tattooed across both yours and Rad's ass cheeks. You'll have to stand ass-by-ass for it to read properly, but that'll give you both a chance to spend more time together.

Since you seem to be such an articulate fellow, I thought you might want to know that it should be "your and Rad's ass cheeks," not "yours and Rad's ass cheeks." Besides, Rad and I already have matching tribal tattoos on our lower backs. It really drives the pipe smoking ladies wild! Next year we're thinking of getting our navels pierced.

Carefully I trod upon
fragile egos, gilded fair
Verily they slithered
underneath my mighty pair
At first the merest whiff I think
but then a sulfurous wave, what stink!
Shall I turn my eye or shine a light
I think I'll stand and face the fright

That's cute.

TJ

P.S. By the way, are you operating under the misplaced presumption of anonymity?

[JHowell]

Are newbies to this forum metaphorical guests in your home? If so, a simple disclaimer at the top of the main page informing newbies that their opinions have less value than yours would save us all a lot of time.

Hey Kurt, can you jump on that?

Thanks,

Todd

I would have thought it self-evident that some opinions have less value than others. I can name quite a few people whose opinions on various subjects are more valuable than mine.

Jack

[kbadkar]

P.S. By the way, are you operating under the misplaced presumption of anonymity?

Have you also come to the conclusion that Kettle/Messer are flip sides of the same coin?

I'm sure Kurt has the means to verify this hunch.

[Frank]

I was referring to what's sometimes called "Godwin's Law," and it's intended to apply directly to online web forums, blogs, etc. I think Godwin refers specifically to the invocation of Nazis, but you'll allow me the latitude to include Fascism too won't you?

Since this thread is still going, do we now consider it "Quirk's Exception"?

[RadDavis]

I gotta say some of you guys are incapable of being objective, and maybe it's because you have a vested interest to defend, or maybe you'ze jus stupid. I don't know what your problem is and I don't care.
Forget this noise.

You are absolutely correct.

All of the pros own large blocks of stock in NYH and SEM, and we're afraid the the stock prices will tumble if too many new pipe makers use the superior, non-smelly Guidici stems.

We're not stupid, we push everyone to use rod stock to protect our investment.

Rad

[SimeonTurner]

Crap! Rad let the cat out of the bag! I'd better sell all of my SEM stock and reinvest it in something less volatile.

I think I'll invest it in delrin. Yeah, that sounds good. Mike, are there any mysterious conspiracies associted with the delrin industry, or are my millions safe there?

*edit: fat fingers make posting via iPhone hard...

[Sasquatch]

Rad you bastard that explains so much....

I am not gonna buy ANY MORE ebonite until I need to. So HAH!

[Kettletrigger]

P.S. By the way, are you operating under the misplaced presumption of anonymity?

Have you also come to the conclusion that Kettle/Messer are flip sides of the same coin?

I'm sure Kurt has the means to verify this hunch.

I am, in fact, operating under the assumption of relative anonymity–as much as can be expected from an online forum anyway. It would appear that kbadkar thinks that M.M. and I are one and the same. Do you think the same Todd, or are you implying that I'm someone else? Please consider this an invitation for you to bring whatever powers of deduction that you posses to bear and figure out for yourself. Elementary, my dear Watson.

Here's a hint: while M.M. appears to think that my posts are in support of his stinky ebonite theory, they're not. In fact, my posts are in support of newbies who ask questions and end up taking a pounding from a clique of the anointed few. Mike asked a question, came up with a theory and ended up being proven wrong. Not a big deal one would think, but apparently he angered the pipemaking gods and they have indeed responded with a great deal of thunder and lightning.

You've already called me a loser, so score one for you old bean. You never know, insults like that may eventually cause me to divulge my true identity.

Tally ho!

[ToddJohnson]

Oooh, I have no real powers of deduction. My powers lie elsewhere. Also, I wasn't suggesting I needed to find out who you are. Anonymity is always an illusion isn't it, Holmes?

Sincerely,

Todd M. Johnson

[JHowell]

[SNIP

Here's a hint: while M.M. appears to think that my posts are in support of his stinky ebonite theory, they're not. In fact, my posts are in support of newbies who ask questions and end up taking a pounding from a clique of the anointed few. Mike asked a question, came up with a theory and ended up being proven wrong. Not a big deal one would think, but apparently he angered the pipemaking gods and they have indeed responded with a great deal of thunder and lightning.

SNIP

No newbie has EVER taken a pounding for asking a question. There's something that does happen from time to time, and those of us who have been here for a few years have seen the same spoke come up in the wheel a number of times. Once in a while a guy will come along with the assumption that because he's an engineer, or software designer, or orthopedic surgeon, or diesel mechanic, or whatever, that he's got knowledge and skills at LEAST the equal of any pipemaker (who, if he had any real knowledge or skill would be an orthopedic surgeon instead of a pipemaker), and all the new guy needs to do is work out a few kinks and he'll be the next Bo Nordh. I mean, really, how hard could it be? This fellow will ask a question. Sort of, because it's really a theory posed as a question. His question will be answered, but he won't like the answer because it doesn't agree with his theory, which he knows is right because he's a food scientist or a fighter pilot. So he will argue, at which point most of us will ignore him, but a few will play along, until at some point it gets heated, the new guy catches a couple of bullets, gets mad, and tells us we're all stupid.

We've seen it before, only the names and the topics change. Good ol' Random, boy did he get mad when we didn't all agree with him that a stem didn't really need to be removed if a pipe was properly designed and start gluing our tenons into our mortises. Or that sanding the inside of the bowl to 6000 grit made for a better pipe, or that Ultem was the One True Stem Material. Todd and Darius (some of this on ASP) used to go at it with him hammer and tongs. Really some classic reading in the archives, I would guess. I'll give Random props, though, he did make some pipes, and whatever you might think of them, he did it his way.

MM didn't take any flak for asking a question, he took flak for refusing to acknowledge that anybody who said that what he was smelling when he sanded rubber rod was normal could possibly know what he was talking about. Before I decided I didn't want to read any more, he was still maintaining that he was right, the rest of us were wrong and either had a vested interest or were just stupid. That's classic. So, Kettle, this is not to blame MM for anything, he's just doing what he does. But your assertion that he was ill-used and that this forum is somehow hostile to newcomers needs to be refuted. It's when a guy asks how or why, we answer, and he says "you're wrong" that the established makers get prickly.

Jack

[Kettletrigger]

Anonymity is always an illusion isn't it, Holmes?

Sincerely,

Todd M. Johnson

It may be in this case, but it certainly isn't universally true. It does have a nice ring to it though–a bit like something one would read on a fortune cookie.

[Kettletrigger]

[SNIP

Here's a hint: while M.M. appears to think that my posts are in support of his stinky ebonite theory, they're not. In fact, my posts are in support of newbies who ask questions and end up taking a pounding from a clique of the anointed few. Mike asked a question, came up with a theory and ended up being proven wrong. Not a big deal one would think, but apparently he angered the pipemaking gods and they have indeed responded with a great deal of thunder and lightning.

SNIP

No newbie has EVER taken a pounding for asking a question. There's something that does happen from time to time, and those of us who have been here for a few years have seen the same spoke come up in the wheel a number of times. Once in a while a guy will come along with the assumption that because he's an engineer, or software designer, or orthopedic surgeon, or diesel mechanic, or whatever, that he's got knowledge and skills at LEAST the equal of any pipemaker (who, if he had any real knowledge or skill would be an orthopedic surgeon instead of a pipemaker), and all the new guy needs to do is work out a few kinks and he'll be the next Bo Nordh. I mean, really, how hard could it be? This fellow will ask a question. Sort of, because it's really a theory posed as a question. His question will be answered, but he won't like the answer because it doesn't agree with his theory, which he knows is right because he's a food scientist or a fighter pilot. So he will argue, at which point most of us will ignore him, but a few will play along, until at some point it gets heated, the new guy catches a couple of bullets, gets mad, and tells us we're all stupid.

We've seen it before, only the names and the topics change. Good ol' Random, boy did he get mad when we didn't all agree with him that a stem didn't really need to be removed if a pipe was properly designed and start gluing our tenons into our mortises. Or that sanding the inside of the bowl to 6000 grit made for a better pipe, or that Ultem was the One True Stem Material. Todd and Darius (some of this on ASP) used to go at it with him hammer and tongs. Really some classic reading in the archives, I would guess. I'll give Random props, though, he did make some pipes, and whatever you might think of them, he did it his way.

MM didn't take any flak for asking a question, he took flak for refusing to acknowledge that anybody who said that what he was smelling when he sanded rubber rod was normal could possibly know what he was talking about. Before I decided I didn't want to read any more, he was still maintaining that he was right, the rest of us were wrong and either had a vested interest or were just stupid. That's classic. So, Kettle, this is not to blame MM for anything, he's just doing what he does. But your assertion that he was ill-used and that this forum is somehow hostile to newcomers needs to be refuted. It's when a guy asks how or why, we answer, and he says "you're wrong" that the established makers get prickly.

Jack

A few months back a teenaged family member asked me to help her pick out a new acoustic guitar, (something that I'm qualified to do). At the guitar store we narrowed it down to two models that fit in her budget. I strongly recommended one, but she picked the other. She had asked for my advice, I gave it, and she decided not to take it. Sure, I felt slightly put-out by the whole experience but I certainly didn't take pains to punish her for not taking my advice. In time she'll either want a better guitar or she won't. As she gets more experience with guitars she may trust my advice in the future, or she may not. I fail to see how my making her feel bad about her decision would cause her to ask for my advice in the future or make her happier about playing guitar in general. Isn't the point of all this to make pipemaking more accessible to all?

I think that teachers should have more tolerance for the ignorant and inexperienced than is being displayed in this thread.

[SimeonTurner]

Oh please...

Did she respond to you by saying something like "I think all of your experience and success with guitars ha blinded you to the truth that this other guitar is better than the one you are suggesting", or how about "you're only pushing that guitar on me becaus you either have a vested interest in the company it because you at stupid."

better yet, did she offer her guitar to some acknowledged experts to play, hear that the guitar she wanted was not a good as the other one recommended, and then still try to push the issue?

There's a difference between whats happened in this thread (which has begun to break down into sheer assininity), and what you just used as an "example"

I'm going to go make a pipe and quit wasting my time responding to drivel from you and MM.

[baweaverpipes]

I'm going to go make a pipe and quit wasting my time responding to drivel from you and MM.

Bravo and I'm with you!

[RadDavis]

Well said Jack!

Spot on, Simeon!

Rad "If you wish to address me, please drop to one knee." Davis

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