Ebonite Sulfur Smell - Tech Info

[Mike Messer]

In a previous topic I asked the "Question About Ebonite Smell." The topic went nine pages and got really crazy at times, and I believe, is difficult to sort through and get a clear answer, although it does contain a lot of good information from some experienced pipemakers, which I am not, but ultimately I did my own tests and here are the results.

The questionable subject ebonite rod from PME, may have been mfg by NYH, but I'm not absolutely sure of this so I'm calling it "PME rod" here.

--------------The Test Results--------------------------------------------------------

---The PME rod - emitted a sickening sulphurous odor when cut or drilled. The dust was dark brown, clumped as though wet. This smell was also easily detectible for two weeks after the piece was finished, polished, and waxed, and althought faint, was very foul to me. After four weeks the smell was completely undetectible in both the waxed piece, and the rough unfinished piece.

---SEM rod - emitted a moderate burning rubber, but not sickening, smell when worked. The dust was dark brown and dry powdery. The smell was faintly detectible for only a few hours, and completely gone the next day.

---Giudici molded ebonite stems - emitted a mild rubber smell when worked. The dust was lighter brown. The smell was undetectible in the piece when it was finished.

---------additional test info----------------------------------------------

Both types of rod finished nicely, with a deep black mirror finish.

Some of the Giudici tips finished nicely, although, perhaps the mirror was not as deep.
Some of the Giudici tips were blemished by red-brown areas which were only visible if the tip was held directly under and very near a light bulb and especially when held vertical.

--------abbreviations used in this post-------------------------------------

PME - Pipemakers Emporium
http://www.pipemakers.org/

NYH - NEW-YORK-HAMBURGER GUMMI-WAAREN COMPAGNIE AG
http://www.nyh.de/

SEM - Schonberger Ebonite Manufaktur GmbH
http://www.sem-hitzacker.de/

----------Notes-----------------------------------------------------------

I sent Kurt Huhn, administrator of this site, a sample of the PME rod, and he tested it, some NYH rod, and some SEM rod which he had in his stock. His results were considerably different in some details, similar in others, and I have copied his posted results into this topic, my next post down.

[Mike Messer]

Kurt Huhn's Test Results, copied from his post in the topic "Question About Ebonite Smell"

I had a little 'down' time this AM before heading out on a construction side job, and decided to do a little comparison.

First test was the nose test. Unground, unsanded, unbuffed - as the rod (and sample chunk) has sat. I sampled both the chunk Mike sent, a piece of NYH rod, and a piece of SEM rod. No detectable odor.

Next I spun up my grinding/sanding disk with a 240-grit wheel on it and touched all three samples to it briefly. The odor of the chunk of ebonite Mike sent was similar to that of the NYH rod.

Moving on to my belt grinder. I left the motor off, and abraded the rods and mystery chunk by hand on a 80-grit belt, allowing a light buildup of dust. The dust from SEM rod was a different color, a light brown, not quite olive. The NYH rod left a darker brown dust. The mystery chunk also left a dark brown dust, nearly identical in color and composition to the NYH rod.

The dust from the SEM rod was a finer dust, while the NYH rod was a slightly coarser swarf that tended to cling together more. This is in keeping with what I experience when shaping a stem. The mystery chunk displayed properties similar to the NYH rod.

Next, the abrasion/odor test. Spinning up the belt grinder, I touched all three samples briefly, allowing the dust from each to collect in my other hand. I do not suggest anyone do this - it's very dangerous. In hindsight, perhaps not the smartest thing I did all day. That said, After collecting the dust from a single sample in my hand, I smelled both the dust AND the sample, in order to get a full effect. Not wanting to contaminate any sample with scent from the previous, I then vacated the shop and rinsed my hands and dried them while allowing the dust filter a few minutes to do it's work. The SEM rod had a sharper more 'burning tires' smell with an underlying odor of sulfur. The NYH rod had a definite sulfur smell, but a reduced 'burning tires' odor. The mystery sample and the NYH rod smelled nearly identical.

I did not compare to any premold stems, as that was not an immediate goal. I may take that on in a few days if requested - I did not destroy the sample, and there's more than enough left to conduct that test.

Based on these observations, I'm reasonably (90%) certain that the sample is from a rod from New York Hamburger.

Now it should be noted that at no time during the test did I consider the odor from any of the samples to be particularly strong. Detectable, yes. Quickly identifiable as ebonite, yes. However, well within the tolerance range of my nose. My wife knew what I was doing, but did not comment on the strength of the odor floating up from the workshop. I did not detect any odor in the house proper. I would classify the sample as having a typical ebonite smell when being worked.

More to come if requested. Hopefully this helps clear up any confusion.

_________________
Kurt Huhn
AKA: Oversized Ostrogoth
pipecrafter@pipecrafter.com
http://www.pipecrafter.com

Visit my pipe making blog:
http://pipecrafter.blogspot.com/

[Mike Messer]

additional info, two emails from Meike Huijssen of SEM-Hitzacker, Posted by me, Mike Messer

From: meike.huijssen@sem-hitzacker.de
Sat, 15 Aug 2009 06:37:32 +0200

Dear Mr Messer,

Thank you for your interest in our product.

The quality of ebonite is a question of the secrets of the mixture and the quality of the ebonite- dust, which is the basic for a absolutly pure ebonite rod. The brown colour has the reason, that the material has not been long enough in the vulcanizing process and the smell comes from a too high part of sulfar.

Giuducci has a long exsperience and they mix the material for the molded mouthpieces my themselves and they just bought our dust also.

I suggest you heard about our quality from other pipemakers. We developed about 3 years to have a perfect product. Pipemakers like Larry Roush, Barby, Teddy Knudsen, Rafa Martin, Love Geiger, Trever Talbert, Moritz, Tsuge are using our product and gave us best comments.

If you have any other questions don`t hesitate to contact me.

In attachment you find the pricelist and some mor informations and pics.

Warm regards
Meike Huijssen


(Here's some more tech. info exerpt from another email from Meike Huijssen of SEM-Hitzacker)

..."the optimum hardness is 80 - 82 D and we only produce this hardness, because it is the best for the pipemaking. You can be sure, that we have the purest and best material in the world and have found the optimum recepture. For sure the proportion sulfar and koutchuk and linoil is one of the most important secrets. But the most important is the purness of the basic material the EBODUST. The absoltly purness of this material makes sure that the surface can be high polished... ...For sure, as harder the material is, as more easy it will brittle... ...Also Giudicci uses our material now, as the basic for their molded pipe stems."

[Mike Messer]

some more good info from the previous topic, unedited.
Posted by jeff

FWIW, Mike, most of us who have done this for a while have used stock from both companies, if not from others as well. I've used Hamburg, SEM, vintage stock that has a density similar to the Guidicis you mentioned, molded stems of various origins and ages, as well as a bunch of stems I've modified of multiple makes from basket pipes to Nordhs. The newer stock extruded ebonite that I've used has a stronger odor than older, but it is a finer material. Both have the sulfury, sewer-like smell--but its strength varies a bit. Molded stems seem to have a wider range between noxious and almost unnoticeable sulfur smell. But the smell is there. This is all to say that the scent of the vulcanite does not correspond to the quality of the material for high-grade pipes in my opinion.

If you are judging the material by working scent alone and that is the only important point for you, then I would suggest that you stay with preformed stems. They can, after all, be had of various larger diameters so as to useful for customized shapes. As has been said by others, the mixing formulae used for these are different than for extruded rod stock. Some are quite good, I'm told. But, most, in my experience, are very much inferior to their extruded counterparts in terms of their performance (finishing quality, comfort, brittleness, etc.) Your mileage may vary, of course. But, I know that you've observed already the general consensus among those of us who do this for a living and have done so for some time. We expect the scent and tolerate it. And in the 5 years or so that I've been doing this professionally, never once have I heard a word from a customer--many of whom are widely considered to be very knowledgeable about this hobby and have very strong opinions about any number of minutia. The absence of your a priori assumption from the conversation suggests that your experience and opinion with it is in the minority. I'm not suggesting that this is in no way important. It's evidently important to you, but not so to a majority of the people out there.

Best,

Jeff

_________________
J. Alan Pipes

[Mike Messer]

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[Mike Messer]

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