Molded Ebonite Stem - Finishing Blemish Problem

[Mike Messer]

I have been using Giudici Molded Ebonite Stems on some experimental pipes and I have a problem with the quality of the finish on these stems.
Stems made from ebonite rod do not have this problem in the finish.
P.S. I am well aware of the argument against molded stems. No argument, here, if you are making high-grade handmade pipes, you are making your stems from high-quality rod stock, but I still have an interest in higher quality molded stems for certain uses.

I don't think I did anything wrong when finishing the molded stems. I think this is the nature of the material they are made of, but is this correct?

Does anyone know if there are any high-quality molded ebonite stems available which will finish as good as stems made from ebonite rod? I would like to use them sometimes. Sources?

This is an image of the worst of these stems, so you can see what I am talking about.
This is two images of the same stem. The blemish shows up when you hold the stem vertical, and close to a light bulb, at a certain angle.

[kbadkar]

Are you talking about the scratches right near the button? It looks like someone filed around there, but didn't work out the scratches before buffing.

[KurtHuhn]

The compression setting on the images is set way too high, and as a result a lot of detail is lost due to lossy artifacting. That's the nature of the JPEG beast.

Try posting the images separately, without such high compression, and the detail may pop up more. As it is, it's very difficult to discern anything outside of some scratches.

[Sasquatch]

Stems made from ebonite rod do not have this problem in the finish.

Bingo.


All that's happened is Mike's finishing technique has caught up to his eyes and he has noticed the pillowy/latticelike structure that molded stems intrinsically have.

It's the same difference between a drop forged tool and a tool hammered from steel rod (and folded 200 times, right you knife geeks?). The finish ain't the same because the material ain't the same, deep down in it's little molecular bones.

[Mike Messer]

The compression setting on the images is set way too high, and as a result a lot of detail is lost due to lossy artifacting. That's the nature of the JPEG beast.

Try posting the images separately, without such high compression, and the detail may pop up more. As it is, it's very difficult to discern anything outside of some scratches.

Nope, that's close to what it actually looks like, and those aren't scratches (actually, there is a scratch near the button, kbadkar noticed). ...The dark backed image is a tiny bit out of focus, but it shows the red-gritty blemish effect, just below the surface, covering the entire area. That's what I was talking about. I think Sasquatch nailed it. It's the nature of the material. That's what I thought, too, but I wasn't sure.

Next question... Is there such a thing as a high-quality molded ebonite stem, similar in quality to ebonite rod, and if so, where can you get them?

[caskwith]

You might find this is some oxidation. sand them again then buff and see if it improves things. I have some pre-mold churchwarden stems that i use and they buff up beautifully after a good sanding.

[Mike Messer]

...It's the same difference between a drop forged tool and a tool hammered from steel rod (and folded 200 times, right you knife geeks?). The finish ain't the same because the material ain't the same, deep down in it's little molecular bones.

I'm not so sure that extruded ebonite rod and molded ebonite tips are as extremely different, materially, as the steel in your steel analogy, but it may be so.
MM

[Mike Messer]

You might find this is some oxidation. sand them again then buff and see if it improves things. I have some pre-mold churchwarden stems that i use and they buff up beautifully after a good sanding.

I tried that, and it didn't work. I think the stems I have are just not good quality.
I visited your site, saw the churchwarden and other pipes. Very nice. It's none of my business, but IMO you should get more for your pipes.
Question: Is Morta a very hard material, esp. does it dull cutting tools, saws, chisels, etc.?

[RadDavis]

it shows the red-gritty blemish effect, just below the surface, covering the entire area.

What compounds are you buffing with?

Rad

[Sasquatch]

FWIW Mike, I think I know EXACTLY what you are seeing, and I've done up some Giudicis that came out absolutely perfect, just glossy deep black (good enough that I cannot tell them from ebonite visually), and I've had some that came out with that weird finish. Same technique applied, so that leads me to believe that there is some variation in the material. But perhaps it is just something that shows up if you rush a step or something. Because I can't be completely sure of the repeatability of my finishing techniques when I was using pre-molds, I can't be totally sure of what I'm claiming. But given that I chuck out giudicis for having color issues, cracks, fissures, thin spots, improperly formed buttons, etc, it certainly does not seem to be beyond the realm of possibility that some giudici stems would finish nicer than others....

[jeff]

Hamburg ebonite makes high quality blanks. I don't have their contact info, but someone here might. Also, George from precision pipe repair uses blanks that are essentially rod stock with a shaped button. Apparently he's had good success. you might try contacting him. Though, for my money, if you are going to buy the larger blanks you might as well just make one from scratch--the work involved will be very similar. Still, if you are looking for the "best" quality, handcut is the only option. The amount of sulfur in the vulcanite needed to mold stems simply makes them inferior to the quality of vulcanite used in rod stock. Most are satisfied with molded stems. If you don't expect perfection, you can be satisfied too.

[caskwith]

You might find this is some oxidation. sand them again then buff and see if it improves things. I have some pre-mold churchwarden stems that i use and they buff up beautifully after a good sanding.

I tried that, and it didn't work. I think the stems I have are just not good quality.
I visited your site, saw the churchwarden and other pipes. Very nice. It's none of my business, but IMO you should get more for your pipes.
Question: Is Morta a very hard material, esp. does it dull cutting tools, saws, chisels, etc.?

Ah well at least you tried, sorry its just crappy stems

Yes Morta is very hard to work with and takes it toll on both tools which dull very quickly and sandpaper which has to be replaced much more frequently than when using briar.

Oh and thanks for hte kind words

[KurtHuhn]

The compression setting on the images is set way too high, and as a result a lot of detail is lost due to lossy artifacting. That's the nature of the JPEG beast.

Try posting the images separately, without such high compression, and the detail may pop up more. As it is, it's very difficult to discern anything outside of some scratches.

Nope, that's what it actually looks like, and those aren't scratches (actually, there is a scratch near the button, kbadkar noticed). ...The dark backed image is a tiny bit out of focus, but it shows the red-gritty blemish effect, just below the surface, covering the entire area. That's what I was talking about. I think Sasquatch nailed it. It's the nature of the material. That's what I thought, too, but I wasn't sure.

Next question... Is there such a thing as a high-quality molded ebonite stem, similar in quality to ebonite rod, and if so, where can you get them?

After 20 years of doing computer related crap, I can recognize JPEG compression artifacting when I see it. Regardless of the actual material disposition, the images are highly compressed, aliased, and there's tons of artifacting. That makes any color variation seen in the image untrustworthy. Sorry, but I can't see anything beyond the JPEG artifacts.

You can find higher quality premold stems, but you will not be able to find premolds that are as high a quality as good rod stock. It is what it is.

I'm not so sure that extruded ebonite rod and molded ebonite tips are as extremely different, materially, as the steel in your steel analogy, but it may be so.

It is so.

[Mike Messer]

Opps.

[Mike Messer]

it shows the red-gritty blemish effect, just below the surface, covering the entire area.

What compounds are you buffing with?

Rad

Tripoli, White Diamond, Carnauba.