ugly ebonite

[caskwith]

I never thought my post would be analysed so critically lol.

Paul had some SEM rod sometime in 2009, possibly late 2008. Like other pipe makers noted the pattern was a bit muddy and the texture not quite right. He didn’t like it and I agreed thought my experience with ebonite at the time was limited.

Towards the end of last year SEM announced they had sorted their problems and sent pictures of the latest colours, the patterns and finish looked much better so Paul ordered some samples. We both tried them out thought Paul did most of the work. He was happy and I trusted him on that so late last year we put in a large order for both swirl and ebonite rod. I believe I went to collect it in January. I have tried a piece of all of the rods since then and I am very happy.

Please note I am not saying that everything from SEM is now great, I can’t be certain of that. What I can be certain of is that what I have tried is much better than the previous pieces I had and I am very happy with the results, Paul seems to be happy so far as well. I have only been making pipes for a few years so I certainly do not think I an expert on these matters (unlike some people) so someone more experienced like Todd may think differently, so I would certainly urge him to get a few samples and would love to hear his feedback on the matter, I am confident he will notice some difference if nothing else. I am quite prepared to be proved wrong on this matter though I hope that won’t be the case as I have about 8 meters of rod here to use lol.

[flix]

How come I feel as though my missing Random has subsided?

[Nick]

Random was awesome!!

[e Markle]

How come I feel as though my missing Random has subsided?

Yes, I'm sensing it too...

Mike = Random?

[RadDavis]

--I'm not trying to make friends, I'm trying to make pipes, damned perfect pipes, no compromises allowed. That's all I want to do.

Mike, this is an admirable goal, but not practical. You'll never get there.

Instead, I suggest the you try making each pipe better than the last one. This is a much easier goal to accomplish, and you'll improve with each pipe as you go. If you're never satisfied, then you'll just keep getting better, but you'll never accomplish perfection. No one ever does.

Also, post some pics of your pipes.

Rad

[baweaverpipes]

--I'm not trying to make friends, I'm trying to make pipes, damned perfect pipes, no compromises allowed. That's all I want to do.

Mike, this is an admirable goal, but not practical. You'll never get there.

Instead, I suggest the you try making each pipe better than the last one. This is a much easier goal to accomplish, and you'll improve with each pipe as you go. If you're never satisfied, then you'll just keep getting better, but you'll never accomplish perfection. No one ever does.

Also, post some pics of your pipes.

Rad

Rad is on the money. It is also wise to seek help from other pipe maker's. Everyone has a trick or two that can help one improve.

[Sasquatch]

Ask away, Bruce. I'm here for ya.

[Mike Messer]

I need to clarify this. I was pissed when I said that about making friends. I am usually friendly to everyone, but when someone takes a shot at me, right or wrong, I tend to shoot back (see below), and I say things, sometimes, that are just reactions. They don't mean a lot. And Johnson can be especially irritating, with his sarcastic insults. He's imposible to deal with on a level keel. He's working a status game I've seen before, in fraternities in college.
I was in a fraternity in college, but we did things a little differently. For example, we had an upperclassman like him who was excessively harassing to new plebes, always throwing his weight around, and one night a small group of pledges, grabbed him in the parking lot, bound him hand and foot and gagged him, and then hauled him to a nearby lake and threw him in. I was one of those pledges, but I was the only one who hung around to make sure he didn't drown.
I'm not suggesting anyone should do anything like that to Todd, though. That's kids stuff, college frat games, you could be arrested for that in the real world, but that's the attitude, I think.

In other news... (Random Freaks) "I'm not Rannnnnnn-dumb"

And all you pipemakers, I appreciate the pipemaking advice, and absolutely, I've learned a lot here. This forum is a great place to improve and learn, tips, tricks, materials, tools, name it, and I'm still developing, for sure.

Yea, I think I know what you mean...Waiting till everything is perfect, and it never happens, and I am guilty of that to some degree, but I can override it, too, but I have to achieve a level that I can live with, that is not embarassing, before I show.

And I do have some unusual methods that sometimes slow me down. I'm working on a tapered chamber drilling method, now, and it may work really good. First you drill the shank and smoke hole, stopping at the design center of the chamber (not yet drilled). Then on the metal lathe, with the bowl in the 4-jaw, you drill a 1/2 inch dia. hole down the center of the chamber with any kind of bit, stopping short of the bottom. Then you use a long shank 1/2 inch dia. round ball bur to finish the bottom of the bowl and hook-up with the smoke hole.
(Johnson's gonna love this). Then you use a boring bar, mounted on the compound slide, set at the desired, calculated angle to shave the side of the chamber, beginning at the top and then with each successive pass, getting deeper, until the tapered (cone) side hooks-up with the half-spherical bottom. Then you can reset the angle and cut the bevel at the top of the chamber.
By doing it this way, with just a 1/2 inch bit, a 1/2 inch ball bur, a boring bar, and a metal lathe, you can custom make chambers any diameter top, any depth, and any taper angle you want, and any bevel at the top of the chamber, with some range limitations, but it would cost a small fortune to have this kind of range with individual chamber-shaped bits.
The tapered chambers seem, more refined and sophisticated to me than cylinders, for most pipes.
I've only drilled one chamber so far, and it went well, but I just got the boring bar, and the bur, a couple of days ago, and I've been really busy lately, posting shit on the forum
M.M.

[baweaverpipes]

And I do have some unusual methods that sometimes slow me down. I'm working on a tapered chamber drilling method, now, and it may work really good. First you drill the shank and smoke hole, stopping at the design center of the chamber (not yet drilled). Then on the metal lathe, with the bowl in the 4-jaw, you drill a 1/2 inch dia. hole down the center of the chamber with any kind of bit, stopping short of the bottom. Then you use a long shank 1/2 inch dia. round ball bur to finish the bottom of the bowl and hook-up with the smoke hole.
(Johnson's gonna love this). Then you use a boring bar, mounted on the compound slide, set at the desired, calculated angle to shave the side of the chamber, beginning at the top and then with each successive pass, getting deeper, until the tapered (cone) side hooks-up with the half-spherical bottom. Then you can reset the angle and cut the bevel at the top of the chamber.
By doing it this way, with just a 1/2 inch bit, a 1/2 inch ball bur, a boring bar, and a metal lathe, you can custom make chambers any diameter top, any depth, and any taper angle you want, and any bevel at the top of the chamber, with some range limitations, but it would cost a small fortune to have this kind of range with individual chamber-shaped bits.
The tapered chambers seem, more refined and sophisticated to me than cylinders, for most pipes.
I've only drilled one chamber so far, and it went well, but I just got the boring bar, and the bur, a couple of days ago, and I've been really busy lately, posting shit on the forum
M.M.

Mike,
Many of us shape, then drill. Your method would not apply. Additionally, to many of us this is business and, in business, time is money. Creating extra steps is costly.

[RadDavis]

And I do have some unusual methods that sometimes slow me down. I'm working on a tapered chamber drilling method, now, and it may work really good. First you drill the shank and smoke hole, stopping at the design center of the chamber (not yet drilled). Then on the metal lathe, with the bowl in the 4-jaw, you drill a 1/2 inch dia. hole down the center of the chamber with any kind of bit, stopping short of the bottom. Then you use a long shank 1/2 inch dia. round ball bur to finish the bottom of the bowl and hook-up with the smoke hole.
(Johnson's gonna love this). Then you use a boring bar, mounted on the compound slide, set at the desired, calculated angle to shave the side of the chamber, beginning at the top and then with each successive pass, getting deeper, until the tapered (cone) side hooks-up with the half-spherical bottom. Then you can reset the angle and cut the bevel at the top of the chamber.
By doing it this way, with just a 1/2 inch bit, a 1/2 inch ball bur, a boring bar, and a metal lathe, you can custom make chambers any diameter top, any depth, and any taper angle you want, and any bevel at the top of the chamber, with some range limitations, but it would cost a small fortune to have this kind of range with individual chamber-shaped bits.
The tapered chambers seem, more refined and sophisticated to me than cylinders, for most pipes.
I've only drilled one chamber so far, and it went well, but I just got the boring bar, and the bur, a couple of days ago, and I've been really busy lately, posting shit on the forum
M.M.

If you're making pipes for your own entertainment, this is good and probably fun, but, as Bruce says, it sounds time consuming, and if you want to sell your pipes eventually, then you really need to learn to just shape an attractive pipe as the first order of business.

Revolutionary bowl drilling techniques, oil curing, new hi-tech stem materials, etc. will do you absolutely no good if you can't make an attractive pipe.

Rad

[KurtHuhn]

While I would never tell someone not to experiment (I actually set aside time every week to experiment and play), I agree 100% with Bruce and Rad. Time is money.

Aside from that, "the old way" of drilling a tobacco chamber on a lathe is already pretty much perfected. Yes, you need a small collection of drill bits, but those will cover you for a whole pantheon of pipe shapes. And in the event that I find myself in need of a new tobacco chamber profile for whatever reason, I just make myself a new bit. It takes me like 5 minutes to do it - or less.

And I'm not convinced about this conical versus cylindrical chamber argument. I really haven't seen any good arguments one way or the other. Maybe because I'm not actively searching them out.

[Leus]

By doing it this way, with just a 1/2 inch bit, a 1/2 inch ball bur, a boring bar, and a metal lathe, you can custom make chambers any diameter top, any depth, and any taper angle you want, and any bevel at the top of the chamber, with some range limitations, but it would cost a small fortune to have this kind of range with individual chamber-shaped bits.

Since I hadn't an appropriate drill at the beginning, my first 10 pipes chambers were done using a similar approach, except that I didn't bother to make it conical. I actually used only a custom shaped (and scary sharp) tool, no bits involved. One of the benefits is that the inner walls of the chamber ended up really smooth without sanding. However, it was really time consuming.

Nowadays I just use a round tip drill bit. It takes me around five minutes to drill one chamber (there is a setup problem that doesn't let me to drill faster) and I don't have to deal with changing tools, etc. I have to say, the less I have to deal with the technical and repetitive aspects of making a pipe, the more time I have for spending on the fun parts (which are shaping the stummel and just the first steps of finishing...) That's a good thing in my opinion.

Cheers!

[Nick]

I love to expiriment. Too much fun. Most of it turns out crap, but that's OK. Well, so far all of it has turned out crap. But the law of averages says that some time I'll hit the mark!! And I'm not in it for the money, so fuck it!

[jeff]

wow. I ignore a thread topic because doesn't sound interesting and when I finally crack it, I see this. Nice.

FWIW, I've bad ebonite from Meike on two separate occasions. The first was too soft and the second was filled with micro-inclusions. She's replaced one and I've still got to return the other. The replacement stock was fine.

We'll see where this year's production quality stands.

[buster]

Just took two Xanax.

[Mike Messer]

If you're making pipes for your own entertainment, this is good and probably fun, but, as Bruce says, it sounds time consuming, and if you want to sell your pipes eventually, then you really need to learn to just shape an attractive pipe as the first order of business.

Revolutionary bowl drilling techniques, oil curing, new hi-tech stem materials, etc. will do you absolutely no good if you can't make an attractive pipe.
Rad

I'm not just doing this for entertainment, so time and money are significant.

It does take a little longer than one shot drilling, maybe half-an-hour or so to drill and bore the chamber this way, but it's a 1-2-3 with the bowl locked in the same position the whole time in the 4-jaw. As for the shape, then drill method mentioned by baweaver, that could be a problem, esp. if you hand shape the entire bowl, but if you turn part of your bowl in the 4-jaw, you can do it right after you turn the partially shaped bowl, but you would be locked-in to the centerline after that.
It probably doesn't affect the attractiveness a whole lot, but I think the chamber does have some relevance to the overall perception of the attractiveness of the pipe, if you inspect the pipe in great detail. To me the custom tapered chamber is kind-of like the machined gas-cap on a Bentley. [BS=]Yes, I think it was machined, when Paris and I were crusing one night, and we ran out of gas, and God forbid, but I had to touch the filthy thing.[/BS]
I have to do these experiments, sometimes to see if it works, but I do put the clamps on it sometimes, it can get too far off the track. I just wanted to be able to use tapered chambers, and I was looking at a set of Eltang spoons ($450) and Ken Lamb bits for $150/ea. You could get a good range of posibilities with them, but I only spent about $44 on the boring bars and bur, and I already had the regular 1/2 in. drill bit.
I may also be able to use the boring bars to make Military style mortises, and the bur for general shape-grinding. I'm not really fond of spoons and spades as drilling method. The Native Americans used something like an arrow which they rolled between their hands to drill chambers and airways. Now, that would be really slow, I bet.

[Mike Messer]

I love to expiriment. Too much fun. Most of it turns out crap, but that's OK. Well, so far all of it has turned out crap. But the law of averages says that some time I'll hit the mark!! And I'm not in it for the money, so fuck it!

I made a wood lathe style tool rest that bolts onto the cross-slide of my metal lathe, replacing the compound slide for some operations...curves. I can't seem to get the X-Y etch-a-sketch method down for curves. It took me a couple of days, and if manufactured would cost about $20. They just don't make one to fit my lathe. It works great. So, sometimes it works.
I just found a manufactured one at http://www.littlemachineshop.com/ for $36 which includes a spur drive center, also.

[baweaverpipes]

I'm not just doing this for entertainment, so time and money are significant.

It does take a little longer than one shot drilling, maybe half-an-hour or so to drill and bore the chamber this way

1/2 an hour for a max. 5 minute job! If I did something like that, slowing the process so much, I'd feel something was terribly wrong.
Most of us have many bits to conform to the desired bowl shape. We do this to cut down on the unpleasantness and boredom of drilling.
Remember, Mike, time is money.

[Mike Messer]

I'm not just doing this for entertainment, so time and money are significant.

It does take a little longer than one shot drilling, maybe half-an-hour or so to drill and bore the chamber this way

1/2 an hour for a max. 5 minute job! If I did something like that, slowing the process so much, I'd feel something was terribly wrong.
Most of us have many bits to conform to the desired bowl shape. We do this to cut down on the unpleasantness and boredom of drilling.
Remember, Mike, time is money.

I don't exactly disagree with you about this, and I appreciate your point of view, but, this thought.... This is one-of-a-kind handmade pipes, not manufacturing, so there are posible, many different approaches. Anything that affects the ultimate value of the pipe is also a factor. So, it could go a lot of different ways, and its a judgement call. Also, I am still in an early development stage, so I do take a lot longer to do things, and I have to stop and think a lot about things that are probably second nature to you.

[KurtHuhn]

Consider this though, Mike. The folks here are trying to save you time, trouble, and aggravation.

Now, I'm not telling you can't do it that way. If you can take the time to do it that way, AND get paid for all that time, fine. Or, if you don't care about ever getting paid for your time, that's also fine. But the problem will be when you've taken six times longer to make a pipe than another maker, and you're trying to justify six times the cost. Especially when you're the new kid on the block, totally unknown, with no examples of your work in smokers' hands, and nobody to vouch for you. If you're able to skip all that, use your methods, and go right to selling pipes for big money, nobody here will stand in your way.

But you won't. At least not for very long.

What we're trying to impart here is that a line should be drawn as far as time investment. At some point you're going to reach the point of diminishing returns, and taking half an hour to custom bore a given tobacco chamber at a precise angle relative to the intended bowl shape is right there solidly in diminished return territory - no matter how much class it may or may not add. It for sure as hell isn't going to smoke six times better than one drilled with a well-profiled spade bit no matter how "handmade" or one of a kind it is.

Claiming that a custom tapered tobacco chamber adds to the handmade-i-ness or one-of-a-kind-i-ness of a pipe is right up there with custom made wooden stereo knobs that cost $485 each and claim to provide dampening effects for unpleasant vibrations generated by volume pots and stock plastic knobs.

It's not really second nature, it's having learned from others who went before you. And I think that's what's frustrating folks. A reshaped spade bit is a damn fine way to make a tobacco chamber. A reshaped silver and demming bit is also damn fine. And they can be accomplished quickly. And they'll smoke wonderfully.

There was another guy that frequented the forum up until a few years ago that insisted on hand shaping each tobacco chamber using a flex-shaft tool and grinding burr. Really, not to dissimilar from your method of custom shaping with a boring bar. His name was...