Opinions on Craftsman Lathe Tools

[tigercasual]

Does anyone out there have experience with Craftsman lathe tools?

Cheers,
TC

[Sasquatch]

No experience, but any lathe tools you are looking at, make sure they are High Speed Steel. I got a cheapish set (Canadian Tire) for about 100 bucks (5 or 6 tools) and they are all right. They don't hold an edge quite as well as Henry Taylors do, but then HT runs about 40 bucks a tool if I remember right....

[Sasquatch]

A lot of the tools a guy sees in sets are not that useful - most turners have no use for a bull nose scraper, for example. There's nothing it can do that a 1/2" spindle gouge can't do (and nicer). So that's a tool that sits on the bench.

A great big roughing gouge is nice for turning bowls, but has no purpose for pipes.

Compare what you are looking at to this - for pipe-sized stuff, this set is incredibly good:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.a ... ,330,43164

But it's no good for 90% of other turning because they are just too little.

[tigercasual]

Sas,

Thanks for breaking it down for me.

How big of a role does handle/blade length play when turning a pipe? Does it make any difference, or does that really only come into play with larger pieces?

Cheers,
TC

[Sasquatch]

Well, length on a turning tool only comes into play if you are getting into a situation where you cannot put the tool rest very close to the work piece. Ideally, you want the rest real close to where you are cutting - this gives the best control, naturally. But if you are cutting a deep bowl or working on the inside of a tight little spice-jar or something, then you can't get the rest very close and a longer tool is needed, but I've never ever thought "Man if only this tool were longer." If you are that far from the tool rest with the cutting tip... bad things are going to happen!

I keep three tools on my bench for pipes. A full size 1/2" gouge for cutting rough shapes and getting things round, the mini skew for doing rings on bulldogs and cutting tenons, a parting tool (mini) for odd jobs where other tools don't fit, and that's really it.

For chess pieces, I've got smaller tools yet, and for bowls and spindles and "normal sized" stuff I have a full range of "full size" tools. But for pipes, because everything is like 2" at most, small tools allow you to get much closer and do a lot more.

[KurtHuhn]

What's interesting is that I have sworn off spindle gouges for the most part, and only use a 1/4" fingernail (aka bowl) gouge. Everything else matches though - skew and parting tool. I also use a tool with replaceable carbide cutter from time to time, but almost never on pipes.

[Sasquatch]

The steeper cut on the bowl gouge certainly lets a guy work "sideways" a lot more, which is handy as hell. I guess technically I have both types of gouge, and I have ground my spindle at a more "bowly" angle than factory as I've sharpened it over time, but not so extreme as some bowl turners apparently like.

http://www.woodcentral.com/newforum/grinds.shtml

[tigercasual]

What percentage of the time are you using the gouge?

[Sasquatch]

50% - all the roughing, and I do shaping on things like calabashes and bulldogs with it. Every pipe that goes on the lathe sees 1/2" gouge in the early stages, and finer tools later maybe. You need a reasonably solid tool to get things round in the first place.

A well-sharpened gouge leaves a finished.. finish. LOL - you get all kinds of tearing with scrapers and with gouges and the skew (under best circumstances - pipes are NEVER best circumstances!) you get a very fine finish on the wood. They cut and polish rather than grind.

Because pipes have a shank, the angle you approach them at is never as clean and easy as "ordinary" turning - so you wind up using tools in funny ways sometimes.

[tigercasual]

Kurt,

I've noticed that you use an oval skew quite a bit. What is the difference between a bowl gouge and skew chisel/ what jobs will they perform most often?

[KurtHuhn]

TC,

The easiest way to answer that question is probably with video - which I'm working on.

The bowl gouge is what I use 80% of the time. I have used the factory grind (for the most part). As Sas mentions, it's very handy for working sideways, but it can also be used straight on like a "regular" gouge. This gives you a lot of flexibility in how you turn the workpiece.

It also, in my experience, is safer and catches less often than a spindle gouge. I mean, you have to get really stupid to make a bowl gouge bite you - And trust me, I know. The grind angle of the bevels allows you to use the workpiece to your advantage by bracing the side bevels against the material while cutting it with the leading edge - this is a little difficult to learn, but once you develop the "feel" for it, it's absolutely invaluable.

The skew I mostly use for finishing work and cutting tenons. I never use it to make square things round, as this just beats up the tool. It can be used as a scraper or a skew, and it is absolutely necessary when cutting decorative beads if you don't have a beading tool. This tool in particular is a bit difficult to learn, and if you're not very careful it will dig into the workpiece create huge oopsies that will necessitate changing the entire shape of your pipe. For that reason I suggest learning this tool on less expensive wood, or on scraps of briar. And it is absolutely necessary to keep it sharp - a dull skew will require significant pressure to cut, and that's when you get into the danger zone of making a mistake.

The skew itself is useful for making the finishing passes on convex objects (like most pipes), concave objects with practice, ensuring a turning is dead straight (in the case of tenons), or even slightly refining a shape with small tweaks (like on pipe bowls). It can be used to make larger cylinders into smaller cylinders, like when turning pen barrels, and is especially useful if you're turning fragile materials like polyester resin since it shaves, not gouges. However, I prefer to use the bowl gouge for that, then clean it up with the skew.

Why an oval skew instead of a flat skew? It's just more flexible for me. It means I can securely rest the skew on the toolrest, and at the same time rotate the cutting edge to get whatever angle I need to best shape the piece. Done right, the vector of force acted upon the skew by the turning is always directly in line with the vector of force that the skew exerts upon the toolrest. With a flat skew, if you rotate the cutting edge (like to cut a convex shape) you've created a fulcrum out of the leading corner which will cut into the toolrest, make it impossible to slide along the toolrest, and make it damn near impossible to hold the skew steady since it will always want to rotate back down to flat.

Hopefully that doesn't muddy the waters any more than they already are. Like I said, it's easier to explain by showing than by typing. I've had a lot of requests for updated videos, so I'll try to get the new ones out of "post production" here soon.

[Tyler]

The grind angle of the bevels allows you to use the workpiece to your advantage by bracing the side bevels against the material while cutting it with the leading edge - this is a little difficult to learn, but once you develop the "feel" for it, it's absolutely invaluable.

Let me jump in here and strongly endorse what Kurt is saying about "rubbing the bevel" when using a gouge. Having the bevel rub (and burnish) behind the cut of a gouge is how it is supposed to work, spindle or bowl. That's why there are a variety of grinds for different turning styles and projects. I use a spindle gouge and have no trouble accomplishing this in turning a pipe. In most of the pipe making videos I seen involving the use of wood turning tools, I'm amazed to see how improperly the tools are used. The two most common errors I've seen are turning a skew chisel sideways and using it as a scraper, and using a spindle gouge without "rubbing the bevel." I HIGHLY recommend checking out some wood turning videos from the library. Watching a professional wood turner will teach you how to use your tools.

The difference between a spindle and bowl gouge is the depth of the channel in the gouge. The profile of the cutting edge is up to you on either tool. You can grind it to a straight or fingernail profile with either tool. Certainly, because the bowl gouge has a deeper channel it possible to accomplish a more pronounce fingernail shape, but that doesn't preclude a spindle gouge from a fingernail grind. I have a moderate fingernail grind on my spindle gouge.

FWIW, I recommend two chisels: 3/8" spindle gouge and a 1/16" parting tool. The only time I ever use anything else is in the shaping of stems. I use a 1/4" spindle sometimes when doing that. I like a 3/8" because it strikes a nice balance between being plenty heavy to rough the bowl, and being small enough for finer detailed turning.

Just adding to the choices,
Tyler

[Sasquatch]

Hey Mr Smartypants Knowitall Tyler, I bet you're not as good with a skew as THIS Mr Knowitall Smartypants:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/SkillsAn ... x?id=28180


Like you say - watching someone who knows what they're doing is a real serious eye-opener on the lathe, more than on any other standard woodshop tool. I mean, I happen to be very, very good with the planer, but no one seems to care.

[tigercasual]

Okay, here is an inexpensive set that seems to come pretty close to encompassing all of the advice that I've been getting...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KI ... PDKIKX0DER


Opinions?

[Sasquatch]

That's a good start. Hard to tell just how big they are, but for most pipe stuff, I'd say they'd work.