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Hi all,

I apologize if this question has been addressed in the past, but I still couldn't find the answer after extensive search. I've been wanting to create a pipe with a horn extension. I notice many pipe makers would add a small metallic ring into the mortise. So here are my questions:

1. Is this because horns are brittle, adding the ring will strengthen the horn so it is less likely to crack?
2. What tool is used to drill the circular hole prior to inserting the ring?
3. Where I can purchase these rings?

Thanks in advance!

Nick

morrow wrote: 1. Is this because horns are brittle, adding the ring will strengthen the horn so it is less likely to crack?

After a fashion, yes. Horn is brittle, but it also (depending on the specific horn) is very unstable under varying humidity conditions and heat. I once tried to make a hunting knife with water buffalo horn handle, and after a week of letting the handles sit roughly shaped, they had actually lifted 1/4" on one side of the tang. If you can find stabilized horn, that will be much better for you, since stabilizing impregnates the wood with plastic resins.

2. What tool is used to drill the circular hole prior to inserting the ring?

You can make a hole saw from the material you're using. Just cut teeth into one end and mount it in your jacobs chuck. Or you can find hole saws in almost any diameter, and these sometimes work if the material is the same thickness as the hole saw's kerf. Or, line the mortis with delrin,

3. Where I can purchase these rings?

Check out the copper and brass tubing at your local hardware store, or you can order tubing in any size online from several places.

This pipe has a delrin line copper tube from the local hardware store. The hole was made with a forstner bit.

I think the copper looks really nice and I was considering doing the same thing for one of my pipes, but I was concerned that the metal may not be a good material to use.

What keeps the copper from oxidizing and turning green over time?

Also, doesn't metal expand more than wood when heated?
Is there any danger of cracking the stemmel while smoking?

And one more question (forgive a noob). What glue do you use to fix the copper?
As a wood turner I use CA glue a lot. Is this glue appropirate for pipes?

Kurt,

Many thanks for the very detailed answers. I'll try the local hardware store during the weekend. I'm not sure if the horns I have are stabilized. If not, can I stabilize them using the dissolved ping pong ball method?

Thanks!

Nick

taharris wrote: What keeps the copper from oxidizing and turning green over time?

Wehter brass or copper, there's a danger that the metal may corrode - particularly if mistreated. However, under normal conditions, stored inside, and not left in the rain or something, the metal will simply patinate (tarnish) and can be brought back to shiny with a vigorous rub with a soft cloth - the same as the pipe itself.

taharris wrote: Also, doesn't metal expand more than wood when heated?
Is there any danger of cracking the stemmel while smoking?

Yes, and not really. The decorative ring is very far from the burning stuff, and is well insulated at that, so the chances of that happening are between "none" and "divide by zero".

taharris wrote: And one more question (forgive a noob). What glue do you use to fix the copper?
As a wood turner I use CA glue a lot. Is this glue appropirate for pipes?

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CA works, but I advise you let it outgas for a few days before finishing the pipe. The outgassing of volatiles from the CA may haze the stem or the area right around the mortis. However, I use a selection of different adhesives depending on what I'm bonding. Anything from plain 5-minute epoxy, to JB Weld, to Loctite plastic bonder for delrin:
http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/13/7/e ... Bonder.htm

morrow wrote: Many thanks for the very detailed answers. I'll try the local hardware store during the weekend. I'm not sure if the horns I have are stabilized. If not, can I stabilize them using the dissolved ping pong ball method?

Horn, despite the fact that it can be unstable, is surprisingly dense. To really get a good stabilization, you want a vacuum/pressure pot. The ping-pong ball method could work, if you submerge them in the solution and draw a vacuum, then (when it stops bubbling) put them under a bit of pressure to help drive the solution into the horn.

That said, a vacuum/pressure pot is not inexpensive, nor is it necessarily particularly safe. What I would do is send my horn out to WSSI so that they can do it:
http://www.stabilizedwood.com/
They're one of the best out there.

Thanks for all of the great info. Kurt.

We have made a few horn shanked extensions in our time as pipemakers (mostly cow horn witch is what we vikings use) and as kurt says the material easely shrinks once worked some, to get around this you can turn the horn into rods and drill a small 2mm hole trough it and coat it with something that prevents it to dry out to fast then let it rest for a month or more. Once you have shaped your shank extension slightly oversized it is wise to let the pipe rest for another week or 2 to see if it shrinks even more before doing final shaping otherwise you will often be able to feel the transition at the joint after a few weeks.

Horn is a troublesome mateial to work and behaves much like fingernails (and smells of carcass)commonly you can se pipes where the edge of the inlay is white due to delamination and that does not look pretty IMO to avoid this you need super sharp lathe tools and to work down the last of the horn going with the direction of the "grain" using a dremel or similar with a sanding drum that said it is a very beautiful and natrual material when worked properly.

Imo the reason for the brass reinforcment ring is because the tennon and mortise is army mount or tappered witch can easely crack the shank if not reinforced if you use a straight tennon it would be enough to inlay delrin into the horn

Personally I would not smoke or sell pipes with shank extensions of stabilized wood or horn where the smoke chanel comes in direct contact with the extension.

geigerpipes wrote: Personally I would not smoke or sell pipes with shank extensions of stabilized wood or horn where the smoke chanel comes in direct contact with the extension.

Done right, though, it would be similar to smoking pipes made with acrylic or polyester stems, since the stabilizing agent is acrylic resins.

KurtHuhn wrote:

geigerpipes wrote: Personally I would not smoke or sell pipes with shank extensions of stabilized wood or horn where the smoke chanel comes in direct contact with the extension.

Done right, though, it would be similar to smoking pipes made with acrylic or polyester stems, since the stabilizing agent is acrylic resins.

I guess it all depends what is used to stabilize it and how well it cures inside the horn/wood commonly used are polyester, acrylic, or epoxy resins, or even extend into some of the lesser-used resins like polyurethane, nylon, or polycarbonate. Polyester, acrylic, and epoxy resins

Thank you both Kurt and Love for your helpful information. Though I can afford a pressure pot, I've heard of the danger operating them. I don't live in the States, so sending them off to WSSI may not be cheap for me, I will have to look for an alternative solution. One more question though, the joint between briar and horn, would just facing both sides and gluing together with epoxy suffice, or do I have to make a tenon and mortise joint?

Thanks!

Nick

morrow wrote:Thank you both Kurt and Love for your helpful information. Though I can afford a pressure pot, I've heard of the danger operating them. I don't live in the States, so sending them off to WSSI may not be cheap for me, I will have to look for an alternative solution. One more question though, the joint between briar and horn, would just facing both sides and gluing together with epoxy suffice, or do I have to make a tenon and mortise joint?

Thanks!

Nick

Use stainells steel tubing or thredded stainless steel tubing with an inner diameter same as the airway

Thanks again, Love!

Nick

Or avoid the hassles of horn entirely by using a decent imitation horn like is sold bu several knife making houses.