unfinished pipes

[Boekweg]

Has anyone else seen these sites? pipe makers that seem to make what looks like unfinished pipes.
I'm sorry, but i'm not that impressed by these pipes. They seem to resemble unfinished briar blocks with stems in them.
They are selling these things form between $85.00 to $110.00 as far as i can see.
With the critique i have seen you guys give on this forum, (with much better quaulity pipes) how is this posible?

[Sasquatch]

Nobody's gonna critique a guy's pipes behind his back, unasked for, around here, Boek.

I'd be pretty pissed if someone on some other site was going around saying "Hey have you seen this joker Sasquatch asking 200 dollars for his piece of shit pipes? What the fuck is that about?"

Judging from some of the shit that gets sold (or not) on ebay, absolutely NOTHING should surprise a guy anymore!

[Boekweg]

Nobody's gonna critique a guy's pipes behind his back, unasked for, around here, Boek.

I'd be pretty pissed if someone on some other site was going around saying "Hey have you seen this joker Sasquatch asking 200 dollars for his piece of shit pipes? What the fuck is that about?"

Ok, first of all, i never used the words "piece of shit" i simply said they look like unfinished briar blocks with stems in them. which for the most part seems absolutely true imo. 2nd of all, i am not asking you to do "anything" behind anyones back! He can see this. Hell, he can join in. Im just trying to understand something here.

The reason i bring this up is not to "trash" another pipe maker, i am simply trying to figure something out. I just happend to come across these comments about leedy pipes on youtube, but there are certainly more of them out there. (pipes and makers)

Ok, this is what im getting at. Some of you seasoned and well known pipe makers critique the hell out of some of these up-coming pipe makers pipes here on the forum, and some of these pipes you critique (imo) look very nice indeed. Then you go on to say things like "they are not quite ready to be selling pipes, but almost there or something to that effect. But then i see things like this on youtube where these people are putting up videos where they are opening up a box and pulling a pipe out of it and saying its the "best pipe in the world" and how it could easly be worth $300.00 or more. But to me it just looks like an unfinished piece of briar with a stem in it.
Please dont get me wrong, If a guy out there is selling pipes, then good for him! way to go! (pat on back) But if thats the case, then 99% if not 100% of the people on this forum shoud be selling pipes from anywere between $70.00 and $110.00

[mredmond]

I think the difference is that most of the guys on this forum have aspirations toward making high grade, artful pipes, and the pros (mostly high grade makers) understand that and critique accordingly. It's not so difficult to make a pipe. It's pretty difficult to make a nice pipe. It's really difficult to make an artful, high grade pipe. Not all pipe makers want to make high grade pipes, therein lies the disparity. Those that want to make high grades usually aren't (and really can't be) satisfied with their $70 - $100 quality pipes because they are aiming higher. The good thing is that there are customers for both, so it works out.

Re: Sas's comments, it's a fine line between discussing value and badmouthing when talking about specific makers, at least as far as perception goes. It's probably best to pose questions like that without using names, just to avoid having to tip toe along that line.

Micah

[KurtHuhn]

I think the situation is that the price point he's in has a lot of potential market in the area where folks are usually paying for factory pipes. When I first started out I was selling pipes shaped like that in the $45 range, and had load of customers that were absolutely ga-ga over my strange freehands. It is possible that part of the elation is due to getting a handmade pipe for minimal cost, but part of it might be getting a handmade pipe at all.

For $80 to $110 I would expect most collectors would be looking to buy factory pipes, since that price point is rarely occupied by artisans. Being able to get a handmade pipe for that price is probably very exciting for new collectors.

Another thought is that pipes of that style actually have a loyal following of folks that really enjoy the unusual shapes. It's not my cup of tea, but I can understand how folks would gravitate to that style.

It's the "Oooh! Shiny!" response. I've done that on more than one occasion with gun parts, truck pieces, knives, tools, etc.

[RadDavis]

I'm sorry, but i'm not that impressed by his pipes. They seem to resemble unfinished briar blocks with stems in them.

Whether you realize it or not, the above statement is trashing another makers pipes on a public forum.

This is bad form, unless the maker is asking for critique. It's as simple as that.

Rad

[Boekweg]

Whether you realize it or not, the above statement is trashing another makers pipes on a public forum.

This is bad form, unless the maker is asking for critique. It's as simple as that.

In steps the mighty "RAD"

Well actually im "not" trashing another makers pipes! I say "imo" I am most certainly entitled to my own opinion. Like i told sas, I never used the words "piece of shit" or ANYTHING to that affect. If it looks unfinished to me, it looks unfinished to me and that is that!

Just like you stepping in and giving your opinion. "Its just your opinion!" its as simple as that Rad.

[SimeonTurner]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHhahahHahahahaha!

I'm sorry, I missed the post where the maker in question solicited your opinion in a public forum? Had he done so, fire away. If he didn't, your humble opinion is both inappropriate and irrelevant.

Good Lord man. Have some tact. Better yet, just keep your opinion to yourself.

[Boekweg]

I'm sorry, I missed the post where the maker in question solicited your opinion in a public forum?

The maker does have an internet web site that is free to the "world" to look at. The public does have a right to an opinion after viewing such a site!

And once again, Simeon, you to, have missed the piont!

At least kurt and mredmond got the piont, and thats all i was looking for.
I was trying to figure something out, and you along with rude, i mean rad, just had to go off on some stupid rant as usual.
If thats all your going to do, why dont you take your own advice and keep to yourself!!!
I dont need your crap or anyone else's. I had a legitimate point here about pricing and quality. It wasnt about the maker, just the quality of the pipe and the price. After being on this forum, it didnt add up to me, thats all. No need to be a "DICK" about it. and as you can clearly see i did invite the maker to his own opinion.
Its also all over youtube were it all started to beging with. Which again, is open to the world, "THE PUBLIC".

[Tyler]

This is a strange thread.

Boekweg, I don't know of the pipes or maker of which you speak, but your question about prices and the advice offered on this forum is both a good one though perhaps a wee bit a bit defensive in tone (in your second and following posts -- granted, you'd already been called out). I'm a little surprised everyone is so bothered by your comments, but I think it would be fair to say that you did imply that the pipes in question were, well, crap. You didn't say it, but you certainly implied it. Perhaps your tone was unintended, but alas, this being the written word and all -- it happens.

I think your question has been answered. The critiques offered on this forum are with the eye toward perfection. Not that it can be attained, but that with each pipe the idea is to remove mistakes -- all of them if possible. The posting "sticky" for the gallery state that one clarify when posting if you want the truth or the polite responses. Perhaps unfairly, but I think it is good, the culture of the forum is to provide the truth unless otherwise requested. The truth could be offered more gently at times, but I think it is offered valuably and with an eye toward assisting the maker.

Guys, I do think it is in questionable taste to critique without request (especially in light of the maker not being a part of this forum to my knowledge), but I don't think this is the first instance. Exhibit A, perhaps, is our Canadian friend who is the last pipe builder in the world.

[Boekweg]

@ KurtHuhn

I just wanted to thank you for your two cents. I'm glad you understood what i was trying to get at. sometimes i come at it from the wrong angle because i dont know quite how to put it. I am very thankful that there are still people like you out there that understand what guys like me are trying to say. You to mredmond, thanks. I understand now with the help of your insite.

[Tyler]

I'm sorry, I missed the post where the maker in question solicited your opinion in a public forum?

The maker does have an internet web site that is free to the "world" to look at. The public does have a right to an opinion after viewing such a site!

And once again, Simeon, you to, have missed the piont!

At least kurt and mredmond got the piont, and thats all i was looking for.
I was trying to figure something out, and you along with rude, i mean rad, just had to go off on some stupid rant as usual.
If thats all your going to do, why dont you take your own advice and keep to yourself!!!
I dont need your crap or anyone else's. I had a legitimate point here about pricing and quality. It wasnt about the maker, just the quality of the pipe and the price. After being on this forum, it didnt add up to me, thats all. No need to be a "DICK" about it. and as you can clearly see i did invite the maker to his own opinion.
Its also all over youtube were it all started to beging with. Which again, is open to the world, "THE PUBLIC".

Now you are getting unnecessarily defensive. No one has insulted you. They have critiqued your behavior, but they haven't insulted you. Please refrain from doing so yourself.

[Boekweg]

@Tyler,

I want to thank you too.

The way you put what you wrote was just right. I will indeed watch how i both post things and say things in the future!

[SimeonTurner]

Look at this from a different perspective. You walk into a room. In that room is a person selling...widgets. To you, widgets look like they are unfinished. You are surprised he is getting customers for his widgets, which in your opinion aren't worth the price being asked. So, you walk up to the guy, and tell him "wow, your widgets don't look finished to me. I'm shocked you are able to sell them!" Not only do you do this to the maker, but you do so in the sight and hearing range of 20 other widget makers.

You may have an opinion. It may be a "correct" opinion. But sharing it, unsolicited, in a public forum is rude. If you disagree, you should email the pipe maker in question and let him know your thoughts. I'm guessing that'd feel awkward...if not...I don't envy the social situations you are likely stumbling into all the time.

Now, if in my example above, the widget maker called you over to his table and said "hey, colleague/friend/person whose opinion I value, tell me and all the others here your thoughts about my widgets," then your thoughts are perfectly appropriate.

Here's a better way to ask your question, since you think I missed your point:

"I've noticed some pipe makers on the web whose pipes seem less impressive than some I have seen here at PMF, yet the makers are selling them for $85-$115 a piece. This surprises me. Could we have a discussion about pipe pricing/market segments/requisite quality prior to offering pipes for sale?". Now, there may be at least 5 other threads on each of those topics, but at least then your aren't not-very-subtely ripping another pipe maker in a public forum.

[Boekweg]

@Simeon,

Ya, i get it already!

[RadDavis]

I was trying to figure something out, and you along with rude, i mean rad, just had to go off on some stupid rant as usual.

FWIW, personal attacks are considered bad form also. In my opinion.

Rad

[baweaverpipes]

Hey Boekweg,
I have a question, is there anywhere one can view your creations? Have you made a pipe, or are you simply a poster on this forum?

[baweaverpipes]

I was trying to figure something out, and you along with rude, i mean rad, just had to go off on some stupid rant as usual.

FWIW, personal attacks are considered bad form also. In my opinion.

Rad

Rod Davies is a poop head, his beard needs trimming and he made pipes with green stems.

[Massis]

Hey Boekweg,
I have a question, is there anywhere one can view your creations? Have you made a pipe, or are you simply a poster on this forum?

Ouch!

...

wait a minute...

*runs back to hide in his corner as a forumreader*

[hawky454]

Hey Boekweg,
I have a question, is there anywhere one can view your creations? Have you made a pipe, or are you simply a poster on this forum?

*****To be clear, I did not post this picture to be nasty. I posted it to show that Boekweg is indeed here to learn and contribute (This is a very fine 1st pipe and nothing to be ashamed of). I think your only fault was mentioning a name. With the name taken out it's a perfectly valid question.

In the end, it's all subjective. I happen to like a lot of the pipes made by the fellow you mentioned.