Tools Advice

[Ocelot55]

Well, I'm ready to start improving the look of my pipes and I think the only way I can do that is to upgrade my tools. Currently my go to tool is a corded drill. I use it for just about everything: turning tenons, polishing and buffing, rough shaping, ect.

Last week I was fortunate enough to talk to Tim West on the phone. After describing my set up to him, he recommended I get a 1/3 hp motor to replace my drill. He said I could do the came things with it, but I could finally ditch the PIMO tool for tenons and use the tenon turning tool he sells. The tool is a bit expensive ($375), but he assured me that the tenons would look professional and be easier to turn. He also told me that it was a great tool to use for turning the tenons on pre-fabs. I use a lot of pre-fabs for pipe repairs, although I am moving away from them on the pipes I make.

At any rate, I was planning on picking up an old 1/3 hp motor (Tim told me that an old air conditioner motor would work fine) and the tenon turning tool. This will be probably around $400 or a little over when all is said and done.

My question is: should I use this money for a lathe instead? I've only used a wood lathe once in high school, so there seems like there would be one hell of a learning curve before I wasn't screwing stuff up. Not to mention a good lathe and all the accessories could be pretty expensive.

Any thoughts or advice?

[caskwith]

A bit more money would buy you a mini lathe that could do a more than a tenon turner, not enough to turn a pipe but enough to turn tenons and fancy shapes as well as bands, rings, plugs etc. A far more versatile tool for not a huge ammount more money. Also the mini lathe would continue to be useful even once you have upgraded to a bigger althe later on, or would be a lot easier to sell on the second hand market. Check ebay and your local craigslist you will be surprised what you can pick up for under $500.

[mightysmurf8201]

Woodcraft is running a sale this month. I picked mine up today. My first lathe! The guys at my local woodcraft were super helpful in helping me with accesories and such. I even had a $15 coupon to sweeten the deal.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/208156 ... -1216.aspx

[Sasquatch]

Sorry but I gotta go against Tim's advice on this. 375 on a lathe and you can turn tenons, do handcut stems.... is it the ideal perfect lathe? No, but you can do a ton more with that 375 than buy a tenon tool. Hell, buy a drill press, do delrin tenons, and you can buff on that machine too.

[wdteipen]

You can spend that money on a lathe but it's not going to be of much use until you spend twice that on a chuck and turning tools at the very least. That being said, it's a better use for the money in the long run than buying a motor and tenon turning tool. You pipemaking will be better served overall if you spent the money on the lathe and worked to outfit it as money became available. As sas mentioned, an even more logical step would be to spend way less on a drill press although you will quickly realize it's limitations in pipemaking.

[caskwith]

You can spend that money on a lathe but it's not going to be of much use until you spend twice that on a chuck and turning tools at the very least. That being said, it's a better use for the money in the long run than buying a motor and tenon turning tool. You pipemaking will be better served overall if you spent the money on the lathe and worked to outfit it as money became available. As sas mentioned, an even more logical step would be to spend way less on a drill press although you will quickly realize it's limitations in pipemaking.

Whats the prices of those 7x10 mini lathes over there? I know I could pick one up here for about the equivalent of $600 or so and it would come with pretty much everything you need to turn tenons, they always comes with 3 jaw chucks attached and drill chucks etc, just need to spend a few more $'s on some HSS tool blanks to grind for cutting and you are done.

[wdteipen]

You can spend that money on a lathe but it's not going to be of much use until you spend twice that on a chuck and turning tools at the very least. That being said, it's a better use for the money in the long run than buying a motor and tenon turning tool. You pipemaking will be better served overall if you spent the money on the lathe and worked to outfit it as money became available. As sas mentioned, an even more logical step would be to spend way less on a drill press although you will quickly realize it's limitations in pipemaking.

Whats the prices of those 7x10 mini lathes over there? I know I could pick one up here for about the equivalent of $600 or so and it would come with pretty much everything you need to turn tenons, they always comes with 3 jaw chucks attached and drill chucks etc, just need to spend a few more $'s on some HSS tool blanks to grind for cutting and you are done.

You can get a Delta or Rikon midi wood lathe for around $300 here (the Woodcraft sale on the Rikon is a good price) but it doesn't come with tooling. I have one of each and don't really care for either all that much. The Taig mini metal lathe is around $450 - $500. For that price I think you're better off to get a drill press and keep saving for a nicer metal lathe.

[Leus]

All said is true. However, I would like to add that, after having your metal lathe with everything you need, a tenon tool still looks like a nice time saver to me.

[kkendall]

There's pros and cons to almost every decision.

The motor - excellent advice. With a motor, you can do a lot.

- You can get a drill chuck for the shaft. Useful for opening the airways in pre-formed stems (just chuck up the drill bit and feed the stem over the bit to open the airway to fit the guide pin on the tenon cutter...fast and easy).

- The chuck on the motor can hold smaller sanding wheels.

- It can also hold the less expensive tenon cutter (by the way, I have just finished testing the new lower priced tenon cutter that is going to be sold by PME... if you take smaller cuts, it leaves a finish on the tenon that rivals a machine lathe - good quality tool for the price)

- With the motor, you can also get an arbor to hold larger, more agressive sanding disks for shaping

- With the same arbor, you can use it for buffing and waxing

About the only thing you're not going to do with a moror is drill the block. - So, the motor is pretty much a must-have tool if you're serious about making more pipes.

A wood lathe can do a lot for you (drilling blocks & rod stock for stems) at less than half the price of a decent machine lathe. But it will still cost you as much for a headstock chuck and tailstock chuck as you paid for the lathe. If you bought a machine lathe, you'd still have to invest several hundred for chucks and tools.

Bang for your buck is what you have to weigh. I hate buying a tool twice, but sometimes you may have to settle for one tool that will do the job for a few years until you can upgrade to something else. (I would venture a guess that there are a lot of pipe makers that started with a wood lathe and motor)

[Ocelot55]

All said is true. However, I would like to add that, after having your metal lathe with everything you need, a tenon tool still looks like a nice time saver to me.

That's kinda what I'm thinking.

How do you turn tenons on a prefab stem with a lathe? Do you have to build a sort of block to fit over the button? I definitely want to switch to a lathe for making stems from rod stock, but since I use a lot of pre-molds for repair would a lathe work for it as well?

Thanks to everyone for the response.

[Charl]

I started with a benchgrinder and drillpress. It wasn't perfect, but it did the the job and I'm still using both, although much less now of course.
That said, a lathe is the way to go. And I would actually save up until I can get a decent size one that can handle anything.

[Sasquatch]

How do you turn tenons on a prefab stem with a lathe? .

You either grab the stem in jaws and pass the button end through the spindle (requires a fair size spindle) or you turn between centers, putting the tenon on a live center and the button end on some kind of rigged device - a screwdriver tip in the slot, or a carved out niche on a faceplate that will accept the button shape.... it's not hard, but you have to think outside the box a little.

[taharris]

To hold a pre-fab stem you can also use a block of wood held in a chuck.

Cut a channel in the face of the block that goes through the center.

Drill a hole in the center the same diameter as the hole in your stem.

Use a pin (or the drill bit) in the hole and insert the stem bit first onto the pin.

Then you can use a live center on your tail stock to hold the tenon end.

If this doesn't make any sense let me know and I will post a picture.

My 2 cents on the tooling question:

If all you want to do is make pipes and you want to do it professionally then save up for a metal lathe that will handle the stemels.

If you want to make pipes as a hobby and also want to turn other things out of wood: bowls, lidded boxes, etc. then you should get a wood lathe, which you can get for half the price of a metal lathe.

I have a Jet 1236 that I use for every step of the pipe making process from drilling to sanding to buffing. Most wood lathes have a Morse taper in the head stock. You can get a mandrel that will fit in the Morse taper that you can attach sanding disks and buffing wheels to.

Just remember that buying a lathe is a lot like buying a horse. You will likely spend as much on tooling as you do on the lathe.

Todd

[e Markle]

My question is: should I use this money for a lathe instead?

Yes.

I picked up a (very) used Jet lathe for $550, and it will do 99.9% of everything I need to do. That and a beat up AC motor like you mentioned (I paid $40 on eBay) are the only two necessary power tools in my shop, and if I had to, I could cut out the motor entirely.

Also, I would really challenge your notion that tools are the limiting factor in the quality of one's work. I think that tools primarily increase quantity of production, but the quality is more closely tied to one's own attention to detail. Just food for thought.

How do you turn tenons on a prefab stem with a lathe? Do you have to build a sort of block to fit over the button? I definitely want to switch to a lathe for making stems from rod stock, but since I use a lot of pre-molds for repair would a lathe work for it as well?

If it's round you just slap it in the chuck, and away you go. If it's oval, diamond, etc., you can do exactly what you said and cut a little jig that holds the button in the chuck and the tenon in a live center. It takes 10 minutes to make.

I absolutely would not buy a tenon cutter... but to each his own.

Best of luck in whatever you decide.

[e Markle]

Just remember that buying a lathe is a lot like buying a horse. You will likely spend as much on tooling as you do on the lathe.

That's true too, but you don't have to start off like that. A plain old 4 jaw independent (piece of junk) will serve for the short term.

[caskwith]

Great advice there from Ernie, yeah we all know his pipes look pieces of crap, but the fact he does it all with only a second hand lathe and a motor shows it can be done. He is always right about more tooling not really making things better, just faster and easier. I started out in a similar fashion with a good lathe a motor for sanding, some files and a buffer. If I had to I could go back to using just these tools with little noticable change in my pipes, they would just taken 3 times as long to make.

[Sasquatch]

This thread has gone exactly where it should imho: the distinction between "best case" and "do for now" tooling, and the separation between tooling and skill.

With a drill press, and a couple of files, I could produce a pipe that most newbie pipe makers would be awed at. That doesn't make the drill press the best tool for the job, but it's a much more dynamic use of a few hundred bucks than a tenon cutter.

Likewise, buying a 3000 dollar lathe won't make an expert pipe maker, but it sure does make things easier. As I have tooled up my equipment more and more for pipes (and mind you I still run a Jet mini lathe), it has made things faster and easier, to be sure. But the basic process is the same, more or less.

Even poorly tooled up, a lathe will let a guy do all kinds of things that are wonderfull for making pipes.

[Ocelot55]

Ok, I had a new idea this morning and I wanted to run it by you guys. A larger lathe for stummels is really out of the question right now for several reasons, finances being one, and the lack of a shop being another. However, I actually prefer shaping by hand and using the drill press to drill the chamber, the draft hole, and mortise. What I really want to do is start using shank extensions more and start cutting my stems from stock.

Here are my questions: would a small hobby lathe be suitable for putting tenons on shank extensions and turning stems? If so, what would be a good choice? Would I be saving enough money to make it a worthwhile investment? Would the hobby lathe be useful even after I had bought a lathe to turn stummels on?

Any advice would help. I'm thinking about selling off a lot of my pipe collection to buy tools.

[taharris]

Save for long shanked pipes I think you could do most of what you want to do with the following:

Jet Mini Lathe (wood) $450 new
Cheap 4 Jaw Chuck (see Woodcraft off brand) $90
Pin Jaws for said chuck - ~$20
Jacobs Chuck for drilling ~$30-40

I imagine you can get most of this equipment from Craig's List or Ebay for less money.

Todd

[Ironpenny]

I personnally use the Taig micro lathe for tenons, stems, extensions, and love it.

On a plus note, the Taig requires a separate motor to drive it, which I'm sure with a little thought could be setup to be removed easily and mounted elsewhere with a sanding arbor and pads, chuck, or whatever else you can dream up to attach to the end.


Chris