Flawed pipes
Flawed pipes
Just wondering why more pipemakers don't sell flawed pipes. Especially high grade makers. Will it hurt their reputation? Do they find a way to work around flaws? Is it acceptable to sell flawed pipes at a heavy discount?
Re: Flawed pipes
Flawed how?
How much do you want to pay for it? The time invested in finishing a pipe you know is not up to standards is wasted time if you could be applying the time into a pipe that is actually going to sell for your regular rate.
I'll give you an example.
I cut a pipe a few months ago, really nice looking piece of wood, but at the end of the day, I got unlucky with a couple significant fissures in the block. Rusticateable, yeah, but really, not a pipe I'm gonna send out the door as a "first". The fissures need some epoxy/dust fill. So.... I got it about 2/3 done, it's got a stem sorta cut but not finished, etc. And it sits on the shelf. Not quite bad enough to outright throw out, but fact is, I have other pipes that need cutting, other orders to fill.
Then I get an email from a guy who has a "first" from me, and he says "Hey, have you got a 2nd-run bent pipe, a reject that I can smoke in my truck as a backup to the other pipe you made me?" You know what, it turns out I do. So, I tell him what I have, he accepts it, so I go and finish the pipe. Stem still has to be decently finished, so there's an hour, rusticate, stain, polish, etc, nother hour or so. So I've got ALMOST the same amount of time in this pipe as I would have in a "regular" BST pipe.
What do I charge this guy? I already told him it's a reject. And he wants a cheap pipe that's better than a cheap pipe. So what's the right number? Let's say it's a hundred bucks. This guy just bought a rusticated reject and paid more for it than he would have paid for a new Savinelli. And I've spent maybe 5 hours on a pipe that I sold for 100 bucks. It's better than not selling it, I guess, but just barely. So it isn't time well spent for me, and it's still reasonably expensive for the client. So who is this good for again?
I think that's the cut and dried version. Economically, it just doesn't make sense. The psychological version is that any pipe I put out of my shop for money should be as good a pipe as I can make. No point in this endeavour otherwise.
I don't want a line of seconds with my name on it. "Todd makes great pipes." That's all. Not "Todd makes great pipes and if you don't really want to pay for one maybe ask him if he's got one of his seconds floating around, they're pretty good and pretty cheap, and that way you still get a handcut stem and a nice shine because he's too anal to sell anything but the best, and you don't even have to pay him for it!"
Fuck that!
How much do you want to pay for it? The time invested in finishing a pipe you know is not up to standards is wasted time if you could be applying the time into a pipe that is actually going to sell for your regular rate.
I'll give you an example.
I cut a pipe a few months ago, really nice looking piece of wood, but at the end of the day, I got unlucky with a couple significant fissures in the block. Rusticateable, yeah, but really, not a pipe I'm gonna send out the door as a "first". The fissures need some epoxy/dust fill. So.... I got it about 2/3 done, it's got a stem sorta cut but not finished, etc. And it sits on the shelf. Not quite bad enough to outright throw out, but fact is, I have other pipes that need cutting, other orders to fill.
Then I get an email from a guy who has a "first" from me, and he says "Hey, have you got a 2nd-run bent pipe, a reject that I can smoke in my truck as a backup to the other pipe you made me?" You know what, it turns out I do. So, I tell him what I have, he accepts it, so I go and finish the pipe. Stem still has to be decently finished, so there's an hour, rusticate, stain, polish, etc, nother hour or so. So I've got ALMOST the same amount of time in this pipe as I would have in a "regular" BST pipe.
What do I charge this guy? I already told him it's a reject. And he wants a cheap pipe that's better than a cheap pipe. So what's the right number? Let's say it's a hundred bucks. This guy just bought a rusticated reject and paid more for it than he would have paid for a new Savinelli. And I've spent maybe 5 hours on a pipe that I sold for 100 bucks. It's better than not selling it, I guess, but just barely. So it isn't time well spent for me, and it's still reasonably expensive for the client. So who is this good for again?
I think that's the cut and dried version. Economically, it just doesn't make sense. The psychological version is that any pipe I put out of my shop for money should be as good a pipe as I can make. No point in this endeavour otherwise.
I don't want a line of seconds with my name on it. "Todd makes great pipes." That's all. Not "Todd makes great pipes and if you don't really want to pay for one maybe ask him if he's got one of his seconds floating around, they're pretty good and pretty cheap, and that way you still get a handcut stem and a nice shine because he's too anal to sell anything but the best, and you don't even have to pay him for it!"
Fuck that!
ALL YOUR PIPE ARE BELONG TO US!
Re: Flawed pipes
Nice rant !Sasquatch wrote:Flawed how?
How much do you want to pay for it? The time invested in finishing a pipe you know is not up to standards is wasted time if you could be applying the time into a pipe that is actually going to sell for your regular rate.
I'll give you an example.
I cut a pipe a few months ago, really nice looking piece of wood, but at the end of the day, I got unlucky with a couple significant fissures in the block. Rusticateable, yeah, but really, not a pipe I'm gonna send out the door as a "first". The fissures need some epoxy/dust fill. So.... I got it about 2/3 done, it's got a stem sorta cut but not finished, etc. And it sits on the shelf. Not quite bad enough to outright throw out, but fact is, I have other pipes that need cutting, other orders to fill.
Then I get an email from a guy who has a "first" from me, and he says "Hey, have you got a 2nd-run bent pipe, a reject that I can smoke in my truck as a backup to the other pipe you made me?" You know what, it turns out I do. So, I tell him what I have, he accepts it, so I go and finish the pipe. Stem still has to be decently finished, so there's an hour, rusticate, stain, polish, etc, nother hour or so. So I've got ALMOST the same amount of time in this pipe as I would have in a "regular" BST pipe.
What do I charge this guy? I already told him it's a reject. And he wants a cheap pipe that's better than a cheap pipe. So what's the right number? Let's say it's a hundred bucks. This guy just bought a rusticated reject and paid more for it than he would have paid for a new Savinelli. And I've spent maybe 5 hours on a pipe that I sold for 100 bucks. It's better than not selling it, I guess, but just barely. So it isn't time well spent for me, and it's still reasonably expensive for the client. So who is this good for again?
I think that's the cut and dried version. Economically, it just doesn't make sense. The psychological version is that any pipe I put out of my shop for money should be as good a pipe as I can make. No point in this endeavour otherwise.
I don't want a line of seconds with my name on it. "Todd makes great pipes." That's all. Not "Todd makes great pipes and if you don't really want to pay for one maybe ask him if he's got one of his seconds floating around, they're pretty good and pretty cheap, and that way you still get a handcut stem and a nice shine because he's too anal to sell anything but the best, and you don't even have to pay him for it!"
Fuck that!
Ryan Alden
http://www.aldenpipes.com
http://www.aldenpipes.com
Re: Flawed pipes
I only sell rejects that would still be worth the time in finishing them up. So far that has been 2 in my whole time pipe making. Most of the rest either get scrapped, smoked myself or given away to friends where the time spent on them is less important than the act of giving the pipe.
Re: Flawed pipes
Alden wrote: Nice rant !
I offer a detailed, thoughtful response, and get nothing but abuse.
Noted for future dealings.
ALL YOUR PIPE ARE BELONG TO US!
Re: Flawed pipes
Sas has a great way of putting things, doesn't he?
I agree with both he and Chris on this one. This early in my pipmaking career it still makes sense for me to finish rejects because, frankly I need the practice. I've sold about 5 or six rejects. Some were drilled a little off, some had bad fissures (typically more mechanical flaws than cosmetic), but I learned something from each one. When I do sell these, all I do is get my materials cost back. Some I smoke and others I give to friends. I don't feel bad about selling a reject to someone, and they're usually thrilled to get them at a good price. I mean, I know mine will smoke better than half of all the manufactured pipes out there regardless if the drilling is slightly off.
That said, when I reach a point in my career that I am better known and am churning out top dollar top quality stuff there really is no point, as Sas was saying, to finish the rejects. By that time there is little to learn from them.
This is just my opinion, but I'm happy to see that others think this way too.
I agree with both he and Chris on this one. This early in my pipmaking career it still makes sense for me to finish rejects because, frankly I need the practice. I've sold about 5 or six rejects. Some were drilled a little off, some had bad fissures (typically more mechanical flaws than cosmetic), but I learned something from each one. When I do sell these, all I do is get my materials cost back. Some I smoke and others I give to friends. I don't feel bad about selling a reject to someone, and they're usually thrilled to get them at a good price. I mean, I know mine will smoke better than half of all the manufactured pipes out there regardless if the drilling is slightly off.
That said, when I reach a point in my career that I am better known and am churning out top dollar top quality stuff there really is no point, as Sas was saying, to finish the rejects. By that time there is little to learn from them.
This is just my opinion, but I'm happy to see that others think this way too.
Re: Flawed pipes
I meant that in a good way.. was well thought out, with good observations.... but you want to tell me that a 6 paragraph dissertation ending with "Fuck That!" isn't a rant ??Sasquatch wrote:Alden wrote: Nice rant !
I offer a detailed, thoughtful response, and get nothing but abuse.
Noted for future dealings.
Fuck That !!
Ryan Alden
http://www.aldenpipes.com
http://www.aldenpipes.com
- KurtHuhn
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5326
- Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:00 pm
- Location: United States/Rhode Island
Re: Flawed pipes
Nobody WANTS to make a "second". Nobody has TIME to make a "second". By the time a pipe maker has reached a certain point, a "second" is something that is essentially unsellable for reasons Sas detailed. Making a "second", takes too much time, can't be sold for a good enough price to be worth it, and STILL costs too damn much.
Most pipe makers will occasionally make a "reject", which is a lot different. These end up in the grill as fuel, given away to friends and family, or smoked by the maker. It is exceedingly rare that one of these would get sold.
Most pipe makers will occasionally make a "reject", which is a lot different. These end up in the grill as fuel, given away to friends and family, or smoked by the maker. It is exceedingly rare that one of these would get sold.
- KurtHuhn
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5326
- Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:00 pm
- Location: United States/Rhode Island
Re: Flawed pipes
My wife takes all my rejects and sells them to rich porn stars. She's been silent about the intended use though, and I've implemented a policy whereby I do not inquire and she does not volunteer information....
Re: Flawed pipes
Sorry. Never thought about it from that standpoint. I don't do this for a living, haven't even sold a pipe. Just curious. Now I have my answer.
Re: Flawed pipes
Don't ask don't tell? It's safe to say those rejects are winding up someone's butt.KurtHuhn wrote:My wife takes all my rejects and sells them to rich porn stars. She's been silent about the intended use though, and I've implemented a policy whereby I do not inquire and she does not volunteer information....
Now there's an image!
Re: Flawed pipes
UberHuberMan wrote:Don't ask don't tell? It's safe to say those rejects are winding up someone's butt.KurtHuhn wrote:My wife takes all my rejects and sells them to rich porn stars. She's been silent about the intended use though, and I've implemented a policy whereby I do not inquire and she does not volunteer information....
Now there's an image!
Dammit !! You just ruined a good thing Kurt had going. But it does explain some of Sasquatchs comments.
Also, a bit of trivia;Sasquatch wrote: "Five years he kept that pipe: up his ass....")
And I'm very handsome.
If you look up Sasquatchs posts, then search those results for the word "ass", you will find 32 results.
Ryan Alden
http://www.aldenpipes.com
http://www.aldenpipes.com
Re: Flawed pipes
Boy, I am glad you got your answer. This post has devolved towards the basest debauchery.buster wrote:Sorry. Never thought about it from that standpoint. I don't do this for a living, haven't even sold a pipe. Just curious. Now I have my answer.
Ryan Alden
http://www.aldenpipes.com
http://www.aldenpipes.com
- KurtHuhn
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5326
- Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:00 pm
- Location: United States/Rhode Island
Re: Flawed pipes
Kurt Huhn, bringing conversations to a screeching halt since 1971....Alden wrote: This post has devolved towards the basest debauchery.
Re: Flawed pipes
Since you were born? Did you enter the delivery room and everything got awkward?KurtHuhn wrote:Kurt Huhn, bringing conversations to a screeching halt since 1971....Alden wrote: This post has devolved towards the basest debauchery.
- KurtHuhn
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5326
- Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:00 pm
- Location: United States/Rhode Island
Re: Flawed pipes
Apparently the giant German midwife ran screaming from the room. Not sure what was up...
Re: Flawed pipes
If any of you real pipe makers are taking friend resumes, I can PM or email!KurtHuhn wrote:...Most pipe makers will occasionally make a "reject", which is a lot different. These end up ... given away to friends...
Hello, I'm #1312.
That's a really big number.
That's a really big number.
Re: Flawed pipes
He does, how do you think I have all these pipes to sell? You think I make them?! It is to laugh.Sasquatch wrote:I sell all my rejects to Nate.
Re: Flawed pipes
Sweet! Welcome to the brotherhood. I have that gift as well.KurtHuhn wrote:Kurt Huhn, bringing conversations to a screeching halt since 1971....Alden wrote: This post has devolved towards the basest debauchery.