Advanced Warning

[DMI]

I have decided it is time I started critiquing some of the pipes that are showing up on the forum and I am not going to be gentle.

Experience-31 years as a pipe smoker, making a living from estate pipes for 6 years and making pipes for four.

David.

[Joe Hinkle Pipes]

I am out if ebonite right now, so it wil be a while before I post any new pipes. But when I do post I will be sure to wear a cup! I think critiques should be honest and point out problem areas. Most of the time you are pointing something out to a new carver that they haven't noticed.

[wdteipen]

I, personally, find the more harsh criticism to be the most helpful. If you want to improve, you've got to have thick skin. No fragile egos allowed.

[d.huber]

I, personally, find the more harsh criticism to be the most helpful. If you want to improve, you've got to have thick skin. No fragile egos allowed.

As long as David is gentle with Sas' feelings. (he can be a little sensative)

[wdteipen]

I, personally, find the more harsh criticism to be the most helpful. If you want to improve, you've got to have thick skin. No fragile egos allowed.

As long as David is gentle with Sas' feelings. (he can be a little sensative)

True, but as long as he adds some microsoft paint illustrations it'll be okay. Sas is easily distracted.

[Sasquatch]

So it's to be Irish Sunglasses all around, huh?

[andrew]

Watch out everyone, he means biznis!

I can see the hair standing up on his back... thick scary squatch hair!

[Sasquatch]

Ooohh... me so hohny! Me love you all night Andrew!

[DMI]

What's so special about Irish sunglasses? Being a Londoner it might be handy to know.

I think we are all a little hesitant when it comes to making harsher comments but they need to be made sometimes to stop a person from re-inforcing bad habits, or to make you stop and think about what you are doing.

It is my opinion that some of the newest members are getting to far ahead of themselves, they get some positive feedback and away they go making more of the same and the mistakes and faults get worse. For those of them selling pipes it is more important to stop them before they sell to much crap and get a reputation for it, there are pipes being sold that I would not let out of the workshop.

As for Sas he said it all himself, I can't find the exact quote but it went something like 'give me a $60 piece of briar and eight hours and I'll make you a basket pipe'. As he said after his Dunhill epiphany he had thought he was making good smokers but found out he wasn't, hats off to you for admitting it and I hope that more people than me re-examined what they were doing.

David.

[Sasquatch]

My "Dunhll revelation" was rather the opposite, David. I could make a better pipe in my sleep in many ways, and frequently do. That needed checking on and verifying. What I don't make is Dunhills. And never can. I can make a pipe twice as good in any way you please - grain, shaping, draw, smoking characteristics..... you name it. And it won't be a Dunhill. The Dunhill collector won't notice it or care. The non-Dunhill collector who buys it will say "Haha, this is great, I can't believe I got this for less than a Dunhill!" I can't make the Dunhill guy want my pipe or consider my pipe as being in the same class, because in his mind, the class is occupied completely. And that's fine.

[DMI]

I must have misunderstood (I seem to be good at that) I thought you were suprised by how well the Dunhill smoked.

I also think that you are doing yourself a mis-service, why not go for the Dunhill buyers? they may be buying the brand but then so does the person who buys a pipe from any artisan maker, people buy Lane, Larryson, Nordh or whatever because of the fame of the maker and in the expectation of a great pipe.

If I ever get around to buying a bigger lathe I'll be knocking out 'classics' with the sole intention of breaking into the high-ish end market, as an artisan I/you/we are able to offer so much more than a big company. I want people to buy one of my pipes and say 'Wow!!! that's the best smoke I ever had and it cost me a third of a Dunhill' because they will a. buy more pipes b. tell thier friends and c.not buy from Dunhill ( I think I'm turning into an anti globalizationist).

David.

[staffwalker]

It is my opinion that some of the newest members are getting to far ahead of themselves, they get some positive feedback and away they go making more of the same and the mistakes and faults get worse. For those of them selling pipes it is more important to stop them before they sell to much crap and get a reputation for it, there are pipes being sold that I would not let out of the workshop.

David.

Amen!! I am astonished by guys who post their fourth or fifth pipe on here to raving reviews. The raving reviews come from others who are also on their fourth or fifth pipe. It seems the next step after a raving review is to establish a website to sell those wonderful "raving review" pipes. Guys, with rare exception, most folks on here will tell you what a great pipe you have made while the same folks who say so don't have the foggiest idea about what it takes to be a great pipe. I think anyone who has been around for a time will tell you to put up a website before you have made at least a 100-200 pipes is a recipe for long term disaster. bob gilbert

[d.huber]

It is my opinion that some of the newest members are getting to far ahead of themselves, they get some positive feedback and away they go making more of the same and the mistakes and faults get worse. For those of them selling pipes it is more important to stop them before they sell to much crap and get a reputation for it, there are pipes being sold that I would not let out of the workshop.

David.

Amen!! I am astonished by guys who post their fourth or fifth pipe on here to raving reviews. The raving reviews come from others who are also on their fourth or fifth pipe. It seems the next step after a raving review is to establish a website to sell those wonderful "raving review" pipes. Guys, with rare exception, most folks on here will tell you what a great pipe you have made while the same folks who say so don't have the foggiest idea about what it takes to be a great pipe. I think anyone who has been around for a time will tell you to put up a website before you have made at least a 100-200 pipes is a recipe for long term disaster. bob gilbert

As a guy who's on his 5th pipe, I welcome more honest criticism. As encouraging as it is to get positive feedback on the work at this stage of the game, it would also be extremely helpful to know what's wrong with it. How else are we supposed to get better?

I look forward to my next pipe getting torn apart.

[d.huber]

To share a thought...

When I was in college getting my degree in performance, the most productive feedback that I received was always hard to hear but it made me look at what I was doing in a new light that forced me to improve.

Coming here is very much like going to class at a university for fine art and craftsmanship. What's different is that, most of the time, the feedback that we get here is from our peers, not from our professors. I would love to see more professors chime in when a student posts their work.

That's my 2 cents for what it's worth.

[The Smoking Yeti]

I wouldn't mind if people went ahead and bought my pipes for more than a Dunhill.

[DMI]

We've been down the road of getting more feedback before (and The God help us this doesn't go the same way), let's just say most of the time it is about time which most of us do not have enough of and leave it at that.

Nor does everyone have the communication skills required to tell someone thier pipes are crap in a polite and non offensive manner and still be constructive.

We all started out somewhere and thought we were the best things since sliced bread, I still have my first pipe which to my eyes was as good as any Bo Nordh I now look at it and think 'uugggggggghhhhh' and have a little shiver. There needs to be some self discipline about the quality of work you aim for, is it really the best you can do without a lathe, drill press, fancy drill bits etc. You should be able to see for yourself what the faults are and ask or work out how to correct them, if making a billiard compare it to one from your rack, look at lengths, balance, joins, staining everything.

In my workshop I keep a few exemplars for reference, if I'm not sure how something is going I have a pipe and cuppa and look at my reference piece and compare it to the pipe I am working on. Most often this is to do with the shank/bowl junction which I either get spot on or totaly cock up.

If you have time do some research on Youtube, there are thousands of videos showing pipemakers at work, watch how they do things, the tools they use, what they have on the shelves just out of shot. Delve into the archives of this site, go to the Board Index and choose a catagory and go back a couple of years, you will see the same questions being asked and newbies showing pipes with the same mistakes that are being made today.

Next?

David.

[meathod]

Thanks for posting this. I look forward to hearing some of your reviews!

[andrew]

Ooohh... me so hohny! Me love you all night Andrew!

Whoa big fella!! I need to stop wearing that perfume... I mean cologne... I mean... now I'm all embarrassed.

I should have known that guy at the store was lying to me. I was trying to buy elk attractant (hunting season approaches), apparently I misread the label and bought Sasquatch attractant. It smells a bit like... burnt otter turds

[Growley]

It seems that the critiques here follow a bit of a process. When a new member posts his/her first pipe they get a lot of encouragement and maybe a little critique, which is good. It's like a toddler taking a first step. Everyone is supportive. Then a few more pipes come along from that same person and they might get a bit more encouragement mixed in with a bit more critique. This is also a natural approach.

Beyond this, it seems character judgement comes into place. Does this new pipe maker want to be a great pipe maker, and are they going to put in the time to become such, or are they just tinkering with a new fun hobby? There are some here that will make a few pipes, and move on to the next cool hobby, and that's fine. Then there are others who will give it all they have to be a great pipe maker, and that's fine. In my opinion, both are valid approaches.

But I imagine it's tiresome for the "professors" to take time out of their day to comment on new pipe maker's pipes knowing that they might not really care or listen. It also has to be annoying posting the same critiques new pipe after new pipe. I would say that the new guys (me included) have a responsibility to scour the forums for advice that's been given over and over to other pipes and apply those principals to their own, do their home work so to speak.

I personally like to see people ask for critique. It lets everyone know they care, they're probably going to listen, and hopefully they won't be offended if their pipe gets completely but professionally torn appart.

It think it would be awesome to open a new part of the site up, one that is a "Yes, I've read the warnings and I accept the terms and conditions" type of area where it's known that posts there are strictly for the purposes of receiving quality and potentially devastating critique.

Just a thought.

[d.huber]

It seems that the critiques here follow a bit of a process. When a new member posts his/her first pipe they get a lot of encouragement and maybe a little critique, which is good. It's like a toddler taking a first step. Everyone is supportive. Then a few more pipes come along from that same person and they might get a bit more encouragement mixed in with a bit more critique. This is also a natural approach.

Beyond this, it seems character judgement comes into place. Does this new pipe maker want to be a great pipe maker, and are they going to put in the time to become such, or are they just tinkering with a new fun hobby? There are some here that will make a few pipes, and move on to the next cool hobby, and that's fine. Then there are others who will give it all they have to be a great pipe maker, and that's fine. In my opinion, both are valid approaches.

But I imagine it's tiresome for the "professors" to take time out of their day to comment on new pipe maker's pipes knowing that they might not really care or listen. It also has to be annoying posting the same critiques new pipe after new pipe. I would say that the new guys (me included) have a responsibility to scour the forums for advice that's been given over and over to other pipes and apply those principals to their own, do their home work so to speak.

I personally like to see people ask for critique. It lets everyone know they care, they're probably going to listen, and hopefully they won't be offended if their pipe gets completely but professionally torn appart.

It think it would be awesome to open a new part of the site up, one that is a "Yes, I've read the warnings and I accept the terms and conditions" type of area where it's known that posts there are strictly for the purposes of receiving quality and potentially devastating critique.

Just a thought.

You make some really good points. Would this new area require committee approval? As in, should the seasoned pipemakers, or "professors" as I've called them, choose who to allow into said area so as to cut down on repetitive feedback like you mentioned? People could request membership and the big boys could decide who was ready to participate in a higher level discussion.

A good reason to consider this if such an area where to come into existence is that people would be required to reach a certain point before being allowed into that area. It'd be like gaining access to a high level course, you've got to finish your pre-requisites before you can get in.

Just some thoughts.