Age of Briar.

[magicbilly]

let me start by saying i have NEVER smoked a briar pipe. i have only smoked a pipe one time and it was cherry wood. however i am looking to pick up the art of making pipes as a hobby. after lurking around here for while i decided i needed some hands on experience with briar pipes. so i went to my local tobacconist bought a half decent cigar. and asked some questions about the pipes they had on hand. i ask to see the cheapest briar pipes they had. starting at $35 you could get something that was not pretty, had some obvious blemishes ( scratch and dents ) and most likely smoked like garbage.. decent pipes with brand names that i have heard of starting around $70. the guy behind the counter recommended one of the less expensive Erik Nording pipes ($125) for a first pipe. all this seemed pretty reasonable. then i asked him what he used personally ... he told me he wont smoke anything less than a $400 pipe, unless he is out and about and doesn't want worry about losing it. this makes sense. he told me what you are paying for is the age of the wood... the older the tree was, the more expensive the wood because the property's of the wood increase with age.

he then said he owns a pipe made from 2000 year old briar. do you carbon date to find the age of a tree that old? is there a site that sells briar by age? all of the sites that i found sell it based on size and list nothing about age. i don't really want to travel half way around the world for decent aged briar. i want my first pipe to be more than a wall hanger or some throw away practice garbage. ( yes i am aware i will jack up a few before i get one right)

i have yet to buy a briar pipe. after hearing what the man had to say and researching on Nordings website im not really sure what to buy. i dont want to buy a POS and have it smoke or taste bad. nor do i want to make a POS to hang on the wall in my office.

well thanks for reading! and thanks for your input!

[LatakiaLover]

The tobacconist you spoke to was either having a bit of fun, or knows precious little about briar.

No worries, a good smoke can be had from a pipe that costs considerably less than $400. As long as properly seasoned wood of reasonable quality is used, and the airway drilling, chamber shape & proportion, and a few other execution details are sound, flavor will not be an issue.

Everything else is visual appeal, comfort, pride of ownership, rarity, and so forth.

[magicbilly]

awesome! i go looking for information and i get handed a pile of crap!. LOL i don't think i will buy cigars or anything for that matter from that genius. plenty of other shops in this town. thank you Sir! i appreciate your honesty.

[wmolaw]

awesome! i go looking for information and i get handed a pile of crap!. LOL i don't think i will buy cigars or anything for that matter from that genius. plenty of other shops in this town. thank you Sir! i appreciate your honesty.

Sounds like that guy was trying to give you a bunch of crap. I have been smoking pipes for forty or so years, and you can get some GREAT smokers for an hell of a lot less than $400. Hell, buy an estate pipe and you can get a great smoker for $30!

There are an hell of a lot more folks who are an hell of a lot more knowledgeable about briar on this site than I am, but to say that the "age" of the briar is the absolute determining factor of a good smoker is hogwash.

Now, as to the 2,000 year old "briar" that's bs as well. However, there are pipes made out of "morta" or "bog oak" which material is that old. I don't have one, but I hear they smoke wonderfully.

So, clearly the dude just had a little bit of knowledge, if that.

[wdteipen]

Myths abound in our hobby. That being said, I believe there is at least some truth to what the tobacconist said in that older briar typically smokes better. Wood undergoes slow changes over time. For pipe smoking, those changes are typically beneficial as briar seasons/ages. Bear in mind that briar doesn't stop aging once it's made into a pipe. All that doesn't mean that a pipe made with fresh briar won't be a good smoker. It also doesn't mean that a pipe made with older briar won't smoke like a dog.

[wdteipen]

Oh, and the 2000 year old briar is most likely complete bullshit. You can typically expect it to be deep inside most cigar/pipe shops, in my experience. It's part of the charm. Kinda like old style barber shops.

[Literaryworkshop]

Ah yes, pipe economics. When you buy a pipe, what are you paying for? Some materials are indeed expensive, and that's certainly a factor in the price point, but I think mostly you're paying for skill and time. As you're soon to find out, it takes a good amount of time to get a pipe looking good, especially if you're making your own stems, adding fancy inlays, or doing complex finishes. You're also paying for the name. A lot of pipe makers have earned the trust and admiration of their customers, so their products command a premium.

As to briar itself, I understand that it's usually graded according to figure (visual appearance) and presence/absences of flaws (pits, cracks, etc.) rather than by age. Pieces cut from the outside of the burl (and therefore made of the newest wood) are generally higher grade than pieces cut from the interior of the burl (containing the oldest wood). I'm sure that, if you could prove that a piece of intact briar was centuries old, it would probably command a premium price, but that's not typically a factor. I'd rather have a piece of flawless briar harvested last year than a piece of century-old briar that's full of pits.

[magicbilly]

i notice the grain is much tighter or has a "birds eye" effect on the more expensive pipes. of course they want to up sell you. i don't mind if they up sell me, as long as they are selling me a quality item. in the pipe world the root of the Erica Arborea is called briar right? do people ever use the root of the Portugal Heath (Erica Lusitanica) or channel heath (Erica Canaliculata)?

[pipeguy]

There is 2000 year old Briar, I have one was smoking it when our Lord came into Jerusalem. Thought I saw that tobacconist there too. He was'nt lying. I have a $30 french mass produced second and its my best smoker

[magicbilly]

There is 2000 year old Briar, I have one was smoking it when our Lord came into Jerusalem. Thought I saw that tobacconist there too. He was'nt lying. I have a $30 french mass produced second and its my best smoker

so it seems that pipes are similar to cigars in that way. i have smoked $30 cigars that tasted bad and had issues staying lit or had peeling or cracking issues. i have smoked $40 cigars that are truly amazing. still my favorte cigar is the TOC Total knockout for around $5. burns razor sharp, no tongue bite, no wrapper issues. its a smooth and flavorful smoke. it packs a real punch too. some things in life you will find that you get what you pay for..

so back to this 2000 year old briar pipe.. lets see a picture of this thing. was it carbon dated? or did Doctor Who let you barrow his Tardis?

[wmolaw]

There is 2000 year old Briar, I have one was smoking it when our Lord came into Jerusalem. Thought I saw that tobacconist there too. He was'nt lying. I have a $30 french mass produced second and its my best smoker

so it seems that pipes are similar to cigars in that way. i have smoked $30 cigars that tasted bad and had issues staying lit or had peeling or cracking issues. i have smoked $40 cigars that are truly amazing. still my favorte cigar is the TOC Total knockout for around $5. burns razor sharp, no tongue bite, no wrapper issues. its a smooth and flavorful smoke. it packs a real punch too. some things in life you will find that you get what you pay for..

so back to this 2000 year old briar pipe.. lets see a picture of this thing. was it carbon dated? or did Doctor Who let you barrow his Tardis?

All kidding aside, if you are going to spend $400 on a pipe, I would sure as hell do some research on the carver, know who it is, what you are getting and be damned sure it is EXACTLY the pipe you want. Hell, there are absolutely wonderful, talented, well known carvers here who will do a custom pipe for you for less than that!

[The Smoking Yeti]

As someone who aspires to sell $400+ pipes, I don't price my pipes on briar age. That'd be really ridiculous- however, it IS important to make sure the briar is well dried and properly cured.

A large part of the pipe's price, is you're paying for perfection. As an artisan, I have to do everything within my power to ensure this pipe will be an outstanding smoker. Proper engineering, sourcing high quality briar, taking pains with the shaping and finish so it's comfortable, etc. etc.

Cheaper factory pipes usually don't pay quite so much attention to all those details- however, that doesn't mean they can't be great smokers, cus' if we're all honest with ourselves, briar is a magical mysterious material.

[the rev]

I actually am right now carving a 3,000 year old piece of briar that was previously owned by King Soloman of 1,000 wives fame. It will be a priceless addition to anyone's collection and will sell for the bargain price of $1,988.00

rev

[magicbilly]

if something ( a briar pipe in this case ) will retail for $400 then the manufacture must have sold it to the retail shop for around half of that. so $200 is the price point your really looking at. if you operate an online retail store then you can ask $400, however the nature of this beast is that the customer would really want to see the pipe in person before spending $400 on it. so if you want to make $400 a pipe then the pipe should be able to retail for $800 and that's not to say the shop wont take the first $700 offer. just that the pipe should fetch $800 in a solid market .the first rule of business is, "pay or taxes". the second rule of business is, "stuff is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it". the third rule is, "Half up front on all custom orders or large orders that will go into back order". if you remember and follow these rules, "even when you find your self up shit creek, you will still have a paddle."

[Tyler]

if something ( a briar pipe in this case ) will retail for $400 then the manufacture must have sold it to the retail shop for around half of that. so $200 is the price point your really looking at. if you operate an online retail store then you can ask $400, however the nature of this beast is that the customer would really want to see the pipe in person before spending $400 on it. so if you want to make $400 a pipe then the pipe should be able to retail for $800 and that's not to say the shop wont take the first $700 offer. just that the pipe should fetch $800 in a solid market .the first rule of business is, "pay or taxes". the second rule of business is, "stuff is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it". the third rule is, "Half up front on all custom orders or large orders that will go into back order". if you remember and follow these rules, "even when you find your self up shit creek, you will still have a paddle."

???

[birba]

[Leus]

Bah. It's well known that really good pipes are only made of dead root briar.

[e Markle]

???

I echo Tyler's eloquence here, and I would just like to add that if you're interested in making pipes just learn to make pipes for the time being. You can worry about your business approach after you know how to turn out a product that people are interested in buying.

let me start by saying i have NEVER smoked a briar pipe. i have only smoked a pipe one time and it was cherry wood. however i am looking to pick up the art of making pipes as a hobby. after lurking around here for while i decided i needed some hands on experience with briar pipes. so i went to my local tobacconist bought a half decent cigar. and asked some questions about the pipes they had on hand. i ask to see the cheapest briar pipes they had. starting at $35 you could get something that was not pretty, had some obvious blemishes ( scratch and dents ) and most likely smoked like garbage.. decent pipes with brand names that i have heard of starting around $70. the guy behind the counter recommended one of the less expensive Erik Nording pipes ($125) for a first pipe. all this seemed pretty reasonable. then i asked him what he used personally ... he told me he wont smoke anything less than a $400 pipe, unless he is out and about and doesn't want worry about losing it. this makes sense. he told me what you are paying for is the age of the wood... the older the tree was, the more expensive the wood because the property's of the wood increase with age.

he then said he owns a pipe made from 2000 year old briar. do you carbon date to find the age of a tree that old? is there a site that sells briar by age? all of the sites that i found sell it based on size and list nothing about age. i don't really want to travel half way around the world for decent aged briar. i want my first pipe to be more than a wall hanger or some throw away practice garbage. ( yes i am aware i will jack up a few before i get one right)

i have yet to buy a briar pipe. after hearing what the man had to say and researching on Nordings website im not really sure what to buy. i dont want to buy a POS and have it smoke or taste bad. nor do i want to make a POS to hang on the wall in my office.

well thanks for reading! and thanks for your input!

Welcome to the forum!

You're putting multiple carts in front of the horse. First off, go buy a pipe. It doesn't matter in the least what your first pipe is; we all dislike one aspect or another of our first pipe. Second, smoke your pipe. This is easy to do as there's really no such thing as perfecting the art of smoking. Just combine tobacco and flame in your pipe, and voila! Third, if you do like pipes (and this is important) then by all means go make a few. They will look like "practice garbage" initially, but if you have some talent you'll be able to make something nice over time. Finally, you can strategize over what business plans and pricing models you want to adopt. Before any of the above, there's really no point in thinking/worrying about - you just have to jump in and do it.

[Sasquatch]

This thread deserves to be a sticky for about 15 different reasons.

[RadDavis]

if something ( a briar pipe in this case ) will retail for $400 then the manufacture must have sold it to the retail shop for around half of that. so $200 is the price point your really looking at. if you operate an online retail store then you can ask $400, however the nature of this beast is that the customer would really want to see the pipe in person before spending $400 on it. so if you want to make $400 a pipe then the pipe should be able to retail for $800 and that's not to say the shop wont take the first $700 offer. just that the pipe should fetch $800 in a solid market .the first rule of business is, "pay or taxes". the second rule of business is, "stuff is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it". the third rule is, "Half up front on all custom orders or large orders that will go into back order". if you remember and follow these rules, "even when you find your self up shit creek, you will still have a paddle."

To quote a very famous pipe maker: Never, ever take a deposit up front for a custom pipe. If you do, they own you and can harass you until you get the pipe made, and when you get the pipe made it seems like you've done it for half price.

If you don't take a deposit, you can just tell them, "I'm behind right now, sorry. I'll get it made when I can." They can't throw the fact that "YOU'VE GOT MY MONEY, WHERE'S MY PIPE!!!" in your face and make you feel all guilty and stuff.

Also, I think you need to know a bit more about pipe making and the pipe buying market before offering this type of advice. People who offer advice on something they know absolutely nothing about often end up looking silly.

Also, also, I don't know what you mean by, "the first rule of business is, "pay or taxes"."

Rad