Pipemakers, craftsmen? Artists? Engineers? Bodgers?

[caskwith]

Bit of a philosophical one for a change, I know it will degrade into name calling and Ernie bashing as usual but worth a try to have an intelligent discussion for once!

Was at my sisters wedding a couple of weeks back and had several conversations with friends and (new) family about pipe making and being a pipe maker. One thing is guaranteed when you are a pipe maker, more often than not you are the person in the room with the weirdest profession and when stuck for a conversation topic, it becomes you!
Usual questions, what do you make them from, how long does it take, how did you start, HOW MUCH did you say they cost, blah blah blah. But the one that kind of stumped me most was "would you say are you an artist?" Another similar was "are you a maker?" Now maker is a relatively new term from the internet generation and I don't really know how to classify that one yet (I don't think even "makers" really know).

Anyway so the question is "are you an artist?" Oh you can discuss "makers" as well if you like, who gives a shit, it's not like we are being productive here or anything

[UncleDraken]

I haven't formulated my own opinion yet, but I have a couple of things I could add. There's a large possibility it would hinder rather than help though!

Firstly, before you can begin to answer the question "are you an artist?", you have to define what 'art' is. That turns the conversation into a bit of a non-starter, but oh well!

Secondly, I've never heard of 'makers' before, but I looked it up and Wikipedia has a page on it for us. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maker_culture.

'Maker culture' emphasises learning-through-doing (constructivism) in a social environment. Maker culture emphasises informal, networked, peer-led, and shared learning motivated by fun and self-fulfilment.[2] Maker culture encourages novel applications of technologies, and the exploration of intersections between traditionally separate domains and ways of working including metal-working, calligraphy, film making, and computer programming. Community interaction and knowledge sharing are often mediated through networked technologies, with websites and social media tools forming the basis of knowledge repositories and a central channel for information sharing and exchange of ideas, and focussed through social meetings in shared spaces such as hackspaces. Maker culture has attracted the interest of educators concerned about students’ disengagement from STEM subjects (science, technology, engineering and mathematics) in formal educational settings. Maker culture is seen as having the potential to contribute to a more participatory approach and create new pathways into topics that will make them more alive and relevant to learners.

[E.L.Cooley]

Hmm when I talk to a non pipe enthusiast I might say I make pipes. Any one who smokes I might say I dabble with it a bit. Play my interest down. As to not get beat up on the street for making crap. Looking at this wiki quote if say I am a pipe maker. Due to the fact I have indeed made a pipe, and I belong to a community of other pipe makers who have agreed by presence to help me hone those skills. Thanks in advance. No really you're all beautiful.
But, reflecting on an earlier thread. I there is project, and passion. I am past project and not in passion yet. So there must also be pursuit. That is where I am. So within the "maker" culture we have loose designations for status of pursuit. I am a noob. Unless there is a level below that? I do still tell people that I'm an Hvac mechanic in that conversation at dinner. Maybe I'll change it pipe artisan extraordinaire once I can make a proper billiard.


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[baweaverpipes]

I feel I'm a craftsman, but others have said my works also have artistic value.
I'm a craftsman.

[DeflictedPipes]

Certainly there are classical definitions of artist, and pipe makers, as sculptors, seem to fit that label. But generally I think 'artist' is too vague to pin down.
I've been software developer for about 15 years now, and like most devs know there is a lot of art that goes into my craft. Some even liken well written and engineered code to a poetic form. Am I an artist? I don't consider myself one, I consider myself an engineer. But at least one of my co-workers thinks of himself as an artist.

[Ocelot55]

I'm with Bruce on this one. I'm a craftsman (perhaps not a very good one yet). I make an item that serves a purpose other than just to be looked at. If that item is beautiful on its own right all the better. Art is so subjective. At least with a craft there is a basic right and a wrong way of doing things, ie engineering.

[scotties22]

I am a craftsman. I grew up in a family of craftsman. My grandfather and father built custom street rods for a living. The cars they built were stunningly beautiful and very well engineered. If you called either of them artists they would have taken you out back and kicked your ass....I feel the same.

Edit: Let me add why I say this...I do not start out to make something with the purpose of moving people to tears with what I make. I am not trying to start a deep discussion about what I am trying to express through my work. My goal is to make something that is visually pleasing (beautiful) that is engineered well and will provide the end user years of service. In a nutshell...a craftsman.

[WCannoy]

I used to argue my position on this subject until I was blue in the face. These days, I prefer to just make pipes and let everyone else worry about the labels.

[Sasquatch]

Ernie told me he feels that I'm a crafstman whereas he thinks of himself as an Artist (capital A is his).

[Alden]

I consider myself a Pipe Wrestler.
Not like the high school sport with rules and such. I'm talking full on, WWF stuff here. Part of what takes me so long to make a pipe is getting into my Rowdy Roddy Ryan costume. Then I spend an hour or so walking around my shop, pointing at the briar and yelling stuff like "OH YEAHH", "I'll SHOW YOUU!", "YOU'RE going DOWWN!!!!"
My signature move is climbing up on the corner of my workbench, holding both arms up in the air over my head, throwing the briar on the floor, then I jump on it and pin it down to the floor and file its face off yelling stuff like "Take THAT!", "Who's the loser who's never going to succeed in life NOW??".

Actually I consider myself an artist (lower case). Mainly because, thats the biggest thing I brought with me to pipemaking is some little bit of artistic talent, much more than any skill in woodworking/craftsmanship.

[Sasquatch]

WHATCHA GONNA DO WHEN ALDENMANIA RUNS WILD ON YOU???

[Sasquatch]

I consider myself a Pipe Wrestler.
Not like the high school sport with rules and such. I'm talking full on, WWF stuff here. Part of what takes me so long to make a pipe is getting into my Rowdy Roddy Ryan costume. Then I spend an hour or so walking around my shop, pointing at the briar and yelling stuff like "OH YEAHH", "I'll SHOW YOUU!", "YOU'RE going DOWWN!!!!"
My signature move is climbing up on the corner of my workbench, holding both arms up in the air over my head, throwing the briar on the floor, then I jump on it and pin it down to the floor and file its face off yelling stuff like "Take THAT!", "Who's the loser who's never going to succeed in life NOW??".

Actually I consider myself an artist (lower case). Mainly because, thats the biggest thing I brought with me to pipemaking is some little bit of artistic talent, much more than any skill in woodworking/craftsmanship.

I came here today to do two things: Chew some bubble gum and make some pipes. And I'm all out of bubble gum!

[oklahoma red]

I'll go with Bruce et al: Craftsman (or Craftsperson if the PC police are out and about and if that's what blows your skirt up) is a good definition.
Artist? (as I reach for my hornet's nest stick) That's a gray area in my opinion, like calling golf or curling or darts a sport. If you can't work up a sweat it's not a sport in my book.
Chas.

[taharris]

Being a craftsman is a long and noble line of work.

I am happy striving to be a craftsman.

Todd

[archaggelosmichail]

Craftsmen or Industrial Designers. We have to be able to find the balance between aesthetic and functional issues.

If we were making pipes that don't smoke, we would be artists, if we just drill 2 holes one a block we would be engineers.

[BobR]

A craftsman without any artistic ability could flawlessly copy a design. Artistic ability is required to produce pleasing variations. The more artistic ability one has, the better the pipes IMO.

So, I believe good pipe makers are craftsmen with artistic ability.

[E.L.Cooley]

Ernie told me he feels that I'm a crafstman whereas he thinks of himself as an Artist (capital A is his).

Sas is the emphasis on the last syllable? ArTIST? reads rTeetst



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[E.L.Cooley]

I consider myself a Pipe Wrestler.
Not like the high school sport with rules and such. I'm talking full on, WWF stuff here. Part of what takes me so long to make a pipe is getting into my Rowdy Roddy Ryan costume. Then I spend an hour or so walking around my shop, pointing at the briar and yelling stuff like "OH YEAHH", "I'll SHOW YOUU!", "YOU'RE going DOWWN!!!!"
My signature move is climbing up on the corner of my workbench, holding both arms up in the air over my head, throwing the briar on the floor, then I jump on it and pin it down to the floor and file its face off yelling stuff like "Take THAT!", "Who's the loser who's never going to succeed in life NOW??".

Actually I consider myself an artist (lower case). Mainly because, thats the biggest thing I brought with me to pipemaking is some little bit of artistic talent, much more than any skill in woodworking/craftsmanship.

Well I am a refrigerator wrestler by day. I didn't know about pipe wrestling I mean I've heard of pipe wrangling but those guys were plumbers.

If never heard pipe making referred to as craftsmanship but I kind of think that as ones artistic/design/mechanical/engineering skills develop that craftsman is a great term. We should adopt that. All in favor? Hehe


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[d.huber]

I'm a fucking artist! *flips the table and paints the Mona Lisa in elephant dung with his feet*

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[d.huber]

Seriously though, I find this to be a very interesting conversation topic and like Walt, I've argued about the craftsman vs artist topic many times.

People will decide what to label each one of us, regardless of what we think we are.

I think of myself as an artist learning to be a craftsman. I say this because prior to pipes, I had no prior experience crafting anything tangible with any tools we all use on a daily basis. Engineering, believe it or not, was the hardest part for me to get early on because I had no skills with the tools I was using.

In my first career as a sound designer for live theatre, I learned that creating was much more exciting for me than the tools I used to create. The tools are simply a conduit for expression to me and I could honestly care less what they are. If they're quality and get the job done with speed and efficiency, that's all I need to know. However, without detailed working knowledge of my tools, I am useless as an artist.

If you're an artist, you have to pursue mastery of a craft in order create. If you're a craftsman, you have to learn aesthetics. Can't have one without the other and still have a quality product. We all just start from different ends of the same table.

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