The psychology of rarity

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Yak
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Re: The psychology of rarity

Post by Yak »

So you guys were talking about the corporate heads of companies and businesses that make low quality goods?
Actually, a step or two further up the ladder. Just the Golden Rule again. To the people that create the money as ledger debt & assign it to those activities in those places where it will produce maximum return (adjusting tariffs & such to accomodate this. The employees of whom write the laws that Congress passes without even reading them).

Credit where credit is due. Nothing implicitly racial about it. The same kind of amoral scum that mandated putting poison in wood alcohol to deter people from drinking it.
James Beard wrote:Follow the money trail.
Yak
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Re: The psychology of rarity

Post by Yak »

Back to the topic :lol:

It is very easy to reduce some complex substance to a simplistic data point. That's how tobacco becomes "about" nicotine, coffee & tea "a matter of" caffene, & pot "about" THC. But when you do that, you aren't dealing honestly with those substances any more. You're playing a game with what you've reduced them to. Then, the conclusions you reach are imposed by a bait-&-switch scam.

In the case of great violins, there's one easy demonstration that settles the discussion. Notice the guy with a Strad on the stage, tuning between movements of a concerto. Very softly, with just the tip of the bow. No matter where you sit -- on stage with him, or in the back of a hall -- with your eyes closed, you'd swear he's two feet from you. 100% of the tonal spectrum of the instrument being tuned is right there in your lap. Distance doesn't diminish it, the way it does an ordinary instrument. That's a Strad for you. An OK violin you can hear, but faintly, and only the pitch of the string itself.

"Science" doesn't even have a conceptual term for that. It's spooky. It can't be isolated & measured. But it's inarguable.
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Alden
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Re: The psychology of rarity

Post by Alden »

RadDavis wrote:
Alden wrote:
The Smoking Yeti wrote:Ryan, tell us about the radio stations down in Texas.
It doesn't translate well to the written word, but here goes;
(BrrrrrtttRRRRRR-O A haHahaHaa)
I'll tell you 'bout Texas Radio and the Big Beat
Soft drivin', slow and mad, like some new language

Now, listen to this, and I'll tell you 'bout the Texas
I'll tell you 'bout the Texas Radio
I'll tell you 'bout the hopeless night
Wandering the Western dream
Tell you 'bout the maiden with wrought iron soul
When I was a younger whippersnapper, I was obsessed with the Doors, wanted to be Jim Morrison when I growed up. I got as far as the alcoholic binges and personality disorders. Turns out that doesn't pay as good as I thought, so now I make pipes :lol:
I used to read a lot of his poetry too. Mostly disjointed and incomprehensible but the top of the barrell was Grade A stuff anyway.
LatakiaLover
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Re: The psychology of rarity

Post by LatakiaLover »

Alden wrote:
When I was a younger whippersnapper, I was obsessed with the Doors, wanted to be Jim Morrison when I growed up. I got as far as the alcoholic binges and personality disorders. Turns out that doesn't pay as good as I thought, so now I make pipes
That's ^^^^ much more colorful and succinct than this vvvv...
ABOUT RYAN

Born in Texas in 1979, I spent my childhood roaming the woods and creeks near the Sabine River in North Texas. Perhaps nothing in life shaped me as much as the quiet solitude of scrub oaks, cracked clay and long summer days. I have spent the rest of my life in and around the city of Dallas, but that love of nature and quiet has never left my soul.

Texas schools are strong in arts and vocational training, and over the years I studied Ceramics, Sculpting, Drawing, Painting, Horticulture, Leatherworking, and Wood Turning. I never considered this a foundation, but I find myself drawing on all of these experiences as I move forward and grow as a Pipemaker.
You should six the birdsong & bunnies thing and give 'em the real deal, Ryan. A simple cut-n-paste is all it would take. :twisted: :lol: :twisted:
UFOs must be real. There's no other explanation for cats.
LatakiaLover
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Re: The psychology of rarity

Post by LatakiaLover »

Yak wrote: 100% of the tonal spectrum of the instrument being tuned is right there in your lap. Distance doesn't diminish it, the way it does an ordinary instrument. That's a Strad for you. An OK violin you can hear, but faintly, and only the pitch of the string itself.

"Science" doesn't even have a conceptual term for that. It's spooky. It can't be isolated & measured. But it's inarguable.
I spent a decade studying sound and working in pro audio, and have a high-level physicist for a son that I discuss sound-related subjects with frequently.

What you claim is nothing more than the violin version of ghosts and haunted houses. Absolute and utter horseshit in real world physical terms, and nothing but auditory placebo effect in psychological terms. When True Believers want a certain sensory input bad enough, their brains will manufacture it.
UFOs must be real. There's no other explanation for cats.
mredmond
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Re: The psychology of rarity

Post by mredmond »

I can vouch for Ryan's personality disorders. I shared a room with him in Chicago. Things got weird...Thomas James' hair has never looked better, though. Ryan's a mean amateur hairdresser, even though he didn't list it in his bio.
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Sasquatch
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Re: The psychology of rarity

Post by Sasquatch »

I'll vouch for Thomas' hair that's for sure. Alden has the magic touch.
ALL YOUR PIPE ARE BELONG TO US!
Yak
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Re: The psychology of rarity

Post by Yak »

I spent a decade studying sound and working in pro audio, and have a high-level physicist for a son that I discuss sound-related subjects with frequently.

What you claim is nothing more than the violin version of ghosts and haunted houses. Absolute and utter horseshit in real world physical terms, and nothing but auditory placebo effect in psychological terms. When True Believers want a certain sensory input bad enough, their brains will manufacture it.
I'm so awed by that I can hardly respond. But I'll try anyway.

I've played those instruments. And worked on them. I'm as familiar with them as you are with pipes. And at a high enough level of accomplishment that a place you've probably heard of gave me a free ride for a MFA to have me playing there for two years. After I tired of the symphony jobs.

What you're saying is that if you can't measure something with your little gadgets, it doesn't and cannot exist. And for proof you point to the instruments themselves. Circular reasoning much ?

200 years of collective experience at the highest levels of accomplishment in complete agreement are as nothing to someone who imagines that he can reduce everything to abstractions and then manipulate them to paint the picture he likes. That's the Enlightenment syndrome. It's faith in empiricism. 100%. And it doesn't pan out.

In the mean time, in an age when people desperately need great instruments, the almost unheard-of top price for the finest new one runs around $150K (with a heavy famous guy association. Otherwise, about $60K).

While a fine Strad or Guarneri regularly tops 10 Million.

Because the most accomplished violinists alive -- collectively -- are all idiots who have no idea what they're doing.
LatakiaLover
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Re: The psychology of rarity

Post by LatakiaLover »

Suit yourself, Yak.

This has gone full circle... the thread starter was about how Magic Violin Believers stepped squarely on their dicks when put to a blind test. Both players and listeners. As "rebuttal," we get to hear about how only people who have decided in advance that ghosts are real ever see ghosts. :lol:

It has been enlightening on several levels, though. Thanks for playing.
UFOs must be real. There's no other explanation for cats.
LatakiaLover
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Re: The psychology of rarity

Post by LatakiaLover »

Sasquatch wrote:I'll vouch for Thomas' hair that's for sure. Alden has the magic touch.
This is starting to get creepy.
UFOs must be real. There's no other explanation for cats.
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Sasquatch
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Re: The psychology of rarity

Post by Sasquatch »

You have no idea. And... that's probably best.
ALL YOUR PIPE ARE BELONG TO US!
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RadDavis
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Re: The psychology of rarity

Post by RadDavis »

LatakiaLover wrote:
Alden wrote:
When I was a younger whippersnapper, I was obsessed with the Doors, wanted to be Jim Morrison when I growed up. I got as far as the alcoholic binges and personality disorders. Turns out that doesn't pay as good as I thought, so now I make pipes
That's ^^^^ much more colorful and succinct than this vvvv...
ABOUT RYAN

Born in Texas in 1979, I spent my childhood roaming the woods and creeks near the Sabine River in North Texas. Perhaps nothing in life shaped me as much as the quiet solitude of scrub oaks, cracked clay and long summer days. I have spent the rest of my life in and around the city of Dallas, but that love of nature and quiet has never left my soul.

Texas schools are strong in arts and vocational training, and over the years I studied Ceramics, Sculpting, Drawing, Painting, Horticulture, Leatherworking, and Wood Turning. I never considered this a foundation, but I find myself drawing on all of these experiences as I move forward and grow as a Pipemaker.
You should six the birdsong & bunnies thing and give 'em the real deal, Ryan. A simple cut-n-paste is all it would take. :twisted: :lol: :twisted:
Here's my favorite lyric from the Doors, and pretty much for all time: "There's a killer on the road, His brain is squirmin' like a toad..." This is just powerful imagery for me and pretty much sums up Ryan's personality. :lol: :lol:

Rad
Yak
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Re: The psychology of rarity

Post by Yak »

Hardly, Woofs. They did incomplete tests, evaluated under useless conditions, measured the wrong variables and came to hilariously wrong conclusions as a result.

Fact : Play an Amati made around 1650 with its original, too-short neck mounted at too high an angle, undersized bass bar & low-density gut strings on a stage and record it. Then play an Strad with a modern setup & record it identically. Same notes, same distance, same mike, same everything.

Analise the results. They're identical. Same sine wave pattern, same decibel levels, &c. &c. &c.

Now play the same music on both with a piano. The Strad rings out & fills the hall, floating over the piano clearly & distinctly while the Amati disappears into it.

That's been done and re-done. By sound recording engineer types that figure all they need to do is step in for five minutes with their gadgets & settle it once and for all.

Full spectrum sound through loudspeakers doesn't stay full spectrum over distances. You undoubtedly know that from doing sound for outdoor/stadium gigs.

But the sound of the great 17th-18th century Italians -- without amplification of any kind -- does.

Guys like Isaac Stern have had several new instruments -- always with the idea of giving the old war horses much needed breaks. Modern makers get a lot of publicity & status mileage out of snagging customers like them. They're feathers in their caps.

But when push comes to shove, they almost invariably play the old ones in high-profile engagements. And invariably when they record. Fact. When your living depends on delivering the goods, theory takes a back seat to results. So they practice on the copies and perform on the originals.

What you imagine must be the case and what is the case diverge.
LatakiaLover
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Re: The psychology of rarity

Post by LatakiaLover »

Yak wrote:
Full spectrum sound through loudspeakers doesn't stay full spectrum over distances. You undoubtedly know that from doing sound for outdoor/stadium gigs.

But the sound of the great 17th-18th century Italians -- without amplification of any kind -- does.
You realize you're saying that the source of radiated energy affects how the energy subsequently behaves, right? As in, the laws of physics are sentient and play favorites.

Do you suppose that when Issac Newton dropped an object, that gravity affected it differently because a famous-to-other-humans had initiated the action? No?

Then please explain how famous-maker violins being given a pass by the laws of physics is different.

On second thought, don't. This conversation is a complete waste of time.
UFOs must be real. There's no other explanation for cats.
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Alden
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Re: The psychology of rarity

Post by Alden »

LatakiaLover wrote:
Alden wrote:
When I was a younger whippersnapper, I was obsessed with the Doors, wanted to be Jim Morrison when I growed up. I got as far as the alcoholic binges and personality disorders. Turns out that doesn't pay as good as I thought, so now I make pipes
That's ^^^^ much more colorful and succinct
LatLover for the win :lol: Thats part of the permanent content of the site, I have to get my webmaster to change it :banghead: I had to write all of the permanent content for the site one afternoon and didn't exactly hit the nail on the head. Thanks for reminding me I've needed to fix that for a year now
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Alden
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Re: The psychology of rarity

Post by Alden »

mredmond wrote:I can vouch for Ryan's personality disorders. I shared a room with him in Chicago. Things got weird...Thomas James' hair has never looked better, though. Ryan's a mean amateur hairdresser, even though he didn't list it in his bio.
Dude, I was being downright bashful in Chicago. I'll call you some time I'm ready for a real bender.
When they lock us up, make sure you request the same cell as me. I'll make sure nobody eats your cornbread
:thumbsup:
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Alden
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Re: The psychology of rarity

Post by Alden »

Sasquatch wrote:You have no idea. And... that's probably best
Jealous much ? I don't do beards homey.
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Alden
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Re: The psychology of rarity

Post by Alden »

RadDavis wrote:
Here's my favorite lyric from the Doors, and pretty much for all time: "There's a killer on the road, His brain is squirmin' like a toad..." This is just powerful imagery for me and pretty much sums up Ryan's personality. :lol: :lol:

Rad
The best part of this thread is, I spent the day listening to Morrison Hotel, Soft Parade, Strange Days, L.A. Woman and Waiting for the Sun.
That and finally realizing that Rad Davis "gets me".
Made my day.
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Re: The psychology of rarity

Post by The Smoking Yeti »

I too shared a room with Ryan.... he talked about strippers non-stop for four days. Serious.
My pipemaking stream of conscience/ website:

http://yetipipe.tumblr.com/
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Alden
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Re: The psychology of rarity

Post by Alden »

The Smoking Yeti wrote:I too shared a room with Ryan.... he talked about strippers non-stop for four days. Serious.
Wasn't "non-stop". There were hours on end where I just snored real loud.
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