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Scott Klein learned the technique directly from Alex, and says he can't imagine doing it any other way.

Seems like concave curves would be much easier to deal with, as well as allow greater overall shape/design freedom.

Going by what those two turn out, I'm surprised more people don't do it.

I have some shapes that I carve with knives, but I can't imagine how a chisel would be more accurate than careful work with knives, hand files, and a Dremel.

sandahlpipe wrote:...but I can't imagine how a chisel would be more accurate than careful work with knives, hand files, and a Dremel.

I didn't say, "more accurate," I said chisels allow more shape freedom plus make concave curves easier to deal with.

Come to think of it, "accuracy" isn't a word that applies to shaping. Either a desired line is hit, or it isn't. "Ease of use" is closer to what you were trying to get at, I think.

In any event, check out either Alex's or Scott's work sometime. You are doubtlessly thinking chisel & mallet, the way a sculptor works stone, or a furniture maker cuts tenons. That's NOT how they use them. The hold the work in one hand against their chest, and hold the chisel by its blade in the other, edge in. Wood is then shaved off in transparently-thin slices with a gentle rocking motion, like an apple being peeled. Takes practice to master, but the level of control afforded is insane once you have.

I have always wanted to try shaping like that. Unless I were in someone's shop watching them do it I wouldn't want to though. I enjoy having all my fingers

I think your description of how it's done answers your question about why there are so few. It sounds like it takes forever and you're like to get stabbed in the chest practicing how to do it.

Is there a video around somewhere?

Ocyd wrote:It sounds like ... you're like to get stabbed in the chest practicing how to do it.

Because 36 grit at 5000 rpm is soooo much safer.

Actually, I'd take a clean, stitch-able cut any day over grinding skin, ligament, and bone from a knuckle. (Think about it)

I've cut myself with a 36 grit 3600 rpm disc and a small carving chisel and the chisel did more damage and could have done significantly more if I were even dumber than I was when it happened. A disc can't really stab you, or cut a piece of meat from your thumb that looks disturbingly like sashimi. That said I haven't tangled with a 5000 rpm disc and when it really comes down to it, if you use the tool correctly and safely, you'll probably be fine.

To comment on the actual point, though, I've considered it if I ever start making more ornate shapes. Carving chisels work really well for certain applications as Alex and Scott clearly illustrate. I'm still trying to work my way around making nice "normal" pipes. I will say I've used some small chisels for a couple rusticated pipes and I liked the end result better than some of the other rustication attempts I've made, even though it felt like it took forever.

mredmond wrote:I've cut myself with a 36 grit 3600 rpm disc and a small carving chisel and the chisel did more damage and could have done significantly more if I were even dumber than I was when it happened. A disc can't really stab you, or cut a piece of meat from your thumb that looks disturbingly like sashimi. That said I haven't tangled with a 5000 rpm disc and when it really comes down to it, if you use the tool correctly and safely, you'll probably be fine.

I suppose degree is everything. Either tool can deliver just a nick or mess you up royally.

I wonder which causes the worst "average" injury?

Too bad Scott doesn't come around PMF. His perspective on pipe making is quite different than most, since he learned from Alex (who is a professional model maker.)

Good point, George. The chisel injury definitely had a higher degree of stupid involved.

LatakiaLover wrote:

Ocyd wrote:It sounds like ... you're like to get stabbed in the chest practicing how to do it.

Because 36 grit at 5000 rpm is soooo much safer.

Actually, I'd take a clean, stitch-able cut any day over grinding skin, ligament, and bone from a knuckle. (Think about it)

I see your point but I tend to keep my vital organs in that area and it's only a relatively short skip to my really vital organs from there

I know a few guys who use knives but I only know of Scott, Alex, and probably tons of Russians who use chisels. Haven't seen it done or tried it yet. Maybe some day.

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I use chisels for some shaping. They can be great, but the learning curve is a bit steeper in my opinion. My shaping wheel doesn't care about grain direction

andrew

Palm chisels are great, but you have to keep them shaving sharp for them to be effective (any chisel for that matter). I think that disuades many from using them. Flat chisels are easy to sharpen, curved ones are a tad trickier. Different tools.

andrew

andrew wrote:My shaping wheel doesn't care about grain direction

And neither should you. Just dig and gouge that stuff offa there, tear-out and chatter be damned.

(You can hide it with a bit of stain later on... no one will notice.)

LatakiaLover wrote:

andrew wrote:My shaping wheel doesn't care about grain direction

And neither should you. Just dig and gouge that stuff offa there, tear-out and chatter be damned.

(You can hide it with a bit of stain later on... no one will notice.)

I was trying to use jb weld to fill in all those gouges. Screw that. George has this nailed.

andrew

I've tried using my regular bench chisels and carving gouges for pipes before. I still do sometimes, though usually only in the rough-shaping stage, between the saws and the rasps. My problem has always been work-holding. A chisels is really designed to be used with two hands, and clamping pipes gets more and more difficult the closer they get to final shape.

Lap-carving with chisels and gouges is indeed possible. There are spoon carvers who work that way. You learn to hold the tool so that, when it slips, it doesn't gouge your hand. Wearing a shop apron also helps a lot. I haven't practiced this method, but I might if I decide I want to do some pipe making on my next camping trip.

Andrew is right about sharpness. Chisels have to be razor-sharp to cut cleanly, and there's a small learning curve involved in getting that kind of an edge on a cutting tool of any kind. Even then, I find it's hard to leave a really clean surface on briar with an edge tool. The briar burl tends to chip and tear out in front of the chisel's edge. It's not that the briar is super hard, either--I find briar pleasantly workable compared to hard maple and hickory. It's just a little crumbly. A rasp will leave tear-out too, but at least that's at a pretty consistent depth and can be easily removed by a file. My chisel edges are keen enough for regular woodworking, whether it be trimming tenons or squaring up mortises, but I think I would have to get them even sharper if I were to use them more for making pipes. I know how to get them sharper, but it takes extra time.