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Buffing with Tripoli?

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:00 pm
by socrates
I am working on finishing pipes by taking old pipes sanding to bare wood. I refine the lines if needed, sand, dye and finish sanding down to 3000/5000 grit. I have not as yet compound buffed with Tripoli. Is doing this needed even though the pipes have been sanded down to 3000 or 5000 grit? Is a while diamond compounding also needed?

I know stems require fine sanding and a good workout with tripoli and white diamond to attain a high shine without scratches. I have not shellaced or buffed out with carnival wax as yet. I want to learn to do it properly before I attempt to do it on a pipe I have made. Thanks in advance for your learned responses.

Re: Buffing with Tripoli?

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:28 pm
by caskwith
Bowl to 6/800, stems to 1000, then buff with Tripoli etc.

Re: Buffing with Tripoli?

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:31 pm
by socrates
caskwith wrote:Bowl to 6/800, stems to 1000, then buff with Tripoli etc.
So it's a waste of time to sand to 5000? Using tripoli and white diamond is the equivalent of sanding to what grit? After compounding/buffing shellac and buffing with carnuba?

Re: Buffing with Tripoli?

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:27 pm
by sandahlpipe
Some people sand to 1500 or 2000 grit and leave off tripoli. It's probably not necessary to use tripoli after 3000 grit, since the grit equivalent is lower than 3000. Tripoli does usually take a little of the top coat of stain off the pipe. For that reason, I sand to a higher grit and start buffing the stummel at white diamond. Then again, I don't use the same buffing setup as caskwith.


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Re: Buffing with Tripoli?

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:44 pm
by RadDavis
socrates wrote:
caskwith wrote:Bowl to 6/800, stems to 1000, then buff with Tripoli etc.
So it's a waste of time to sand to 5000? Using tripoli and white diamond is the equivalent of sanding to what grit? After compounding/buffing shellac and buffing with carnuba?
I would say it's a waste of time. I sand to 600 and then stain & buff. There's really no sandpaper grit equivalent to buffing compounds. Sand paper and buffing compounds give different finishes, and buffing goes a helluva lot faster than sanding. :)

Rad

Re: Buffing with Tripoli?

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:30 pm
by scotties22
sandahlpipe wrote: It's probably not necessary to use tripoli after 3000 grit, since the grit equivalent is lower than 3000.
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Gottta say wrong on this. A buffing compound works differently than sandpaper. The only reason the compounds are given a "grit" at all is for reference. I sand my stems to 400 and then use Green Tripoli which I think is like 280 grit. Step backwards? No....it actually shines quite nicely. Compounds and sandpaper are two different worlds when it comes to how they work on the wood and stem materials we use.

Re: Buffing with Tripoli?

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:39 pm
by sandahlpipe
Yes. Compounds both round the surface at a microscopic level and fill in pores in the wood. Sanding doesn't fill in pores. It's a different kind of abrasive.

And going from 3000 to Tripoli is different than going from 400 to tripoli. Both are steps "backward" but at 3000 grit, it's a few steps backwards. Especially if you've sanded properly to 3000 and removed all the scratches. I often buff in between grits to reveal scratches and then go back and sand.




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Re: Buffing with Tripoli?

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:45 pm
by scotties22
Save yourself the time going to 3000 in the first place. It's a bit superfluous in my opinion. And pretty much ANY buffing is going backwards when you are sanding that high. And I get a pretty damned good finish spending extra time at 220 versus hours sanding through grits that high.

Re: Buffing with Tripoli?

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:33 pm
by PremalChheda
IAWR

buffing a stem after 600 with red then white is all that is needed. You can sand higher if you want to buff with less pressure or compound, or at a lower speed.

Re: Buffing with Tripoli?

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:43 pm
by socrates
As usual a wealth of information. With that in mind I will try both buffing with compounds and doing my sanding to 3000/5000. After both I will see the end result. There is no question about the stem. Sand, compound buff and inspect under magnification and continue 'til no scratches can be seen. Since I'm going blind my wife does my QC inspections and is damned good at it.

I am house bound and don't mind putting the extra time into sanding. It's therapeutic for me. Sanding from 180 to 3000 or higher reveals so much of the wood and grain and running your fingers over the pipe is so rewarding after all the sanding. I experienced the same feelings when carving bone fish hooks or making things from wood or knife making. I enjoy using my hands to create things and time doing so isn't an issue.

Again thank you all for sharing your knowledge and experience in helping me out. I truly love being able to ask questions here and getting various answers from all your experiences. AWESOME PLACE!

Re: Buffing with Tripoli?

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:15 am
by BobR
Some suggested to me (not to name names) that using tripoli at all is undesirable as it does fill the pores. So the last pipe I made I sanded to 2000 with abralon, skipped the coarse Menzerna compound and went directly to the medium. The jury is still out as I can't say the finish was much better. But ... if you intend to do a type of french polish it may be wise to skip the tripoli or coarse compounds as they are more oily and penetrate the wood. At least that what I understood the process to be.

Re: Buffing with Tripoli?

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:19 am
by socrates
BobR wrote:Some suggested to me (not to name names) that using tripoli at all is undesirable as it does fill the pores. So the last pipe I made I sanded to 2000 with abralon, skipped the coarse Menzerna compound and went directly to the medium. The jury is still out as I can't say the finish was much better. But ... if you intend to do a type of french polish it may be wise to skip the tripoli or coarse compounds as they are more oily and penetrate the wood. At least that what I understood the process to be.
Thanks very much Bob. Not only nice to know but something I want to try.

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Re: Buffing with Tripoli?

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:33 am
by BobR
sandahlpipe wrote:I often buff in between grits to reveal scratches and then go back and sand.
Does anyone know if buffing/compounds prevent stain penetration (such as buffing off a base stain when contrast staining). Or, should sandpaper only be used until after the final top stain, shellac if used, then buff?

Re: Buffing with Tripoli?

Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:15 pm
by Literaryworkshop
PremalChheda wrote:
buffing a stem after 600 with red then white is all that is needed.
I was SO happy to get this figured out a few pipes ago. It's worked out well for me every time.

Re: Buffing with Tripoli?

Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:41 pm
by Joe Hinkle Pipes
Bob the waxy carrier used in the compounds will block stain from penetrating. It's more work to remove the residue of the compound than it is to sand longer at every grit.

Re: Buffing with Tripoli?

Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:52 pm
by scotties22
Solomon_pipes wrote:Bob the waxy carrier used in the compounds will block stain from penetrating. It's more work to remove the residue of the compound than it is to sand longer at every grit.

This ^^^^^^ is a GREAT way to describe how compounds work!!! Thanks Joe ;)