Quality Vs. Quantity Debate

[sandahlpipe]

Hey, folks. I was researching for my day job and came across this article, which I thought was applicable to pipe making. The question is, for people starting out, is it better to try to make your first pipes perfect, or move quickly to the next.

This article gives an answer. I'm not sure it's authoritative, but it may have some wise advice.

http://thewritepractice.com/quantity-v-quality/

[scotties22]

To an extent I think this is true. From the standpoint of "practice makes perfect" However, as you make more pipes you have to want to make the next one better or you will just keep doing to same stuff. It all comes down to trying your hardest on every pipe you make and the rest will come with time.

Quality over quantity, accuracy over speed. <-------this will always be my motto.

[SteveJ]

Interesting piece. I'm as I'm sure many here are, in the quantity camp. If you spend three months on one single pipe, having never made a pipe before (or replace pipe with anything) you have nothing but ideas to go on. If you pump out a pipe a day for three months, whether its critiqued by others or just yourself you are going to take some bit of knowledge from each experience, and it will be applied to the next project whether consciously or sub consciously.

It applies to almost any trade. That's why you start at the bottom and work your way up. In the construction industry you start as an Apprentice or Laborer. Spending usually a year at the least just grabbing basic parts and cleaning up. It's boring, grueling, and there's no compliments. BUT, you learn the things you will be working with inside and out by seeing them every day.

Just my counterfeit .02. And hello to the forums.

[billiard]

[Joe Hinkle Pipes]

Perfection is a great thing and makes sense to a certain point. Pertaining to pipes, when you are new generally the pipes are so bad that beveling the mortise polishing the shank face countersink in the tenon and sanding the chamber aren't necessary. It's like the people that put $2000 tires and rims on a $500 car. As you progress you start to pick up the details and finishing touches to make a nice pipe. Some people never reach the point of sweating the details. Some people (usually with the guidance of a pro) will pick them up more quickly because the pro is correcting them in the moment and preventing rookie mistakes.

[BobR]

I think it depends on the complexity of the object being made. Make 50 clay pots vs 1. Ok, I'll accept making more is better. Painting the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel? Well, you know ...

Slow and deliberate is what creates muscle memory. Intent matters. Ask any musician.

So, I agree with Scottie.

[Tyler]

I'd put my next paycheck on this experiment holding true for pipes just like it does for pottery.

50 pipes versus one? No brainer. The 50 will win almost every time.

[Tyler]

I think it depends on the complexity of the object being made. Make 50 clay pots vs 1. Ok, I'll accept making more is better. Painting the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel? Well, you know ...

Slow and deliberate is what creates muscle memory. Intent matters. Ask any musician.

So, I agree with Scottie.

I'd venture that once 50th Sistine chapel would be better. In fact, I think this plays out IN the Sistine chapel. I haven't seen it myself, but a friend who visited said one striking thing about the chapel is the improvement of the painting quality as the project progressed. One end of the chapel is apparently much more refined than the other.

[Sasquatch]

Fuck I agree with Tyler again.

[sandahlpipe]

I was told by a certain member of this forum to start tossing stummels when I messed up on the basic shape instead of trying to fix the mistake on it. Moving to the next pipe instead of finishing once I had made a mistake took a lot of wasted briar, but it was well worth it in terms of the drastic improvement in quality I experienced. So I do agree with Tyler. Mistakes are how everyone learns.

[BobR]

Well damn. I do work slow and try to do the very best I can assuming it will improve my skills faster. The problem is I want a half way decent pipe when I'm done. Now, this approach will make it less likely I would post a pipe for critique because I wouldn't give a shit about trying to make it as good as I think I can. I'll give it a try though and force myself to make several pipes faster and see what happens.

[RadDavis]

I was told by a certain member of this forum to start tossing stummels when I messed up on the basic shape instead of trying to fix the mistake on it. Moving to the next pipe instead of finishing once I had made a mistake took a lot of wasted briar, but it was well worth it in terms of the drastic improvement in quality I experienced. So I do agree with Tyler. Mistakes are how everyone learns.

I agree with Tyler too! Tippecanoe.

I don't agree with tossing stummels where you've messed up the basic shape, rather than try to correct it. You can learn a lot by trying to correct mistakes. Then you can toss them.

Sometimes you can even fix them.

Rad

[Ocyd]

No according to the math by the 50th Sistine Chapel he would've been dead for 100+ years or so...

[BobR]

I'd venture that once 50th Sistine chapel would be better. In fact, I think this plays out IN the Sistine chapel. I haven't seen it myself, but a friend who visited said one striking thing about the chapel is the improvement of the painting quality as the project progressed. One end of the chapel is apparently much more refined than the other.

My point was he did work slow, with intense concentration. He did it once. Hey, maybe if I go slower the bowl will suck but the button will be a masterpiece.

But, I am going to take your advice and start speeding things up a bit to make more.

[PremalChheda]

If a skilled experienced pipe maker makes 50 pipes or makes only one pipe in the same amount of time, which one will be the masterpiece?

The 50th pipe or the 1 pipe?

[scotties22]

Did the students who only had one pot to make only get one shot at making it? The story mentions that they rethrew the pot repeatedly. Did they not learn anything? One would think that they would learn, and improve their skills, with every pot they discarded (much the same way we improve with every pipe we make). So why after an entire semester of work did they not have 50 pounds of clay pots as well AND have the same skill as the other group of students? The story didnt' say they could only make one pot....just that they had to make a perfect one in a semesters time. I think this story is a little short on details and it has skewed our view as a result.

This is a perfect example of "statistics don't lie, liars use statistcs."

[d.huber]

IAWT
IAWR
IAWS

I think that doing the best you can with every attempt and making a lot of attempts will always lead to better results in less time.

[W.Pastuch]

Neither approach is 100% right.
It depends on your ability to assess the quality of your work. Making hundreds of shitty pipes won't teach you anything, maybe besides fast drilling.
Tossing a pipe because you cant stick to the original idea is stupid- we're not machines that can only perform a preset task, we're humans making handmade pipes and it only makes sense if we can adjust the work at every stage.
One of the most important things that you learn in pipemaking is how to creatively solve your problems. A whole lot of shapes would have never been made if the pipemaker hadn't decided to alter his initial idea to adapt to what the briar is saying (and sometimes the briar says "I don't care that you want to learn to make a billiard, no effin way, I want to be a canted oval shanked egg and if you can't handle that it's your problem!").
Quantity will teach you repeatability, which is important. But only making the very best out of every attempt (maybe with the exception of very bad screw-ups) will make you a better pipemaker.
Huber got it right in the last sentence: "doing the best you can with every attempt and making a lot of attempts".

"Persistance and determination alone are omnipotent" - that's a nice quote.