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I read a thread on another forum the other day that was bemoaning the glut of new pipe makers and the prices they charge. While the glut of new pipe makers might be relatively new, moaning about new makers prices is not. (Trevor, care to comment? )

I have also read on this forum a fair amount of comments about the "new guys" and their prices.

So my question: do the prices other people charge bother you? Why or why not?

I wish the new guys would charge even more so my pipes would sell better. There are a lot of new guys half as good as me charging the same prices, but I think if they charged more, the people who buy theirs because they're cheap would buy mine because they're cheap.

very thought provoking.... I was talking to a fellow over here about the same thing a few weeks ago... as he was/is having problems setting his current prices... and my response was more or less do you want sell one or two pipes or develop a relationship with a customer base..

today its hard to do... Access into the US market seems easy, if you make the US shows... breaking into the EUR market is a little more difficult as they "show-masters" still run the who sales what.. one fella here in Germany gets at a minimum of 50% of all sales... and if you don't agree you can't show your wares. The idea behind TPC has more or less taken off for hosting pipes for sale, in Europe there is one person trying, and he's having a little more of a struggle, but it only because he hasn't grasped social media as mike has.

now for the million dollar question about prices... simple answer is sometimes... I know it shouldn't, but it does.. and no, I don't loose any sleep over it... back to my above answer to fellow maker regarding building a market or targeting for the quick win. Most of the makers that are making what I deem to be inferior pipes to mine (based on pictures only as I haven't viewed most personally unless at European shows) and charging more will either stick around and get better... or make enough to almost pay for their investment and resale their stuff.

On to another point... is it a career or a hobby... if its a hobby, longevity will weed out the noise level, but if its a career... there is a price point when you have to decide where quality meets the ability to move... you must have customers to pay rent, buy groceries, pay health insurance, buy materials.. and quantity of a soundly made pipe will normally outpace a single high priced pipe... 3-4 pipes a week at the 300-350 range adds up over the time needed to sale one $2000 pipe... (for most) and pays the bills

james

Everything finds its true value.
I will point out, Rod Davies and I started out selling our pipes in the $80-$100 range and very gradually raised prices as our skill set warranted.

I did.....for about 15 minutes. Then I talked to George and Quinton at a meeting one night and they pretty much bitchslapped me and asked why the hell I was worried about what someone else was doing. Ultimately I can only control the price of my pipes so I can't worry about what all the shit on Instagram is selling for.

Conversely, i really can't charge more for my pipes right now anyway. I know I make a damned fine pipe and it is absolutely worth $400. But, I don't have the following or reputation yet to warrent that price. One day I will. Until then I'll just sit back and watch the trainwreck on social media and know that I will still be making and selling pipes years from now.

The first pipe I sold, I sold for $50. I gradually raised my prices also until I hit in the $200 range and probably raised my prices into the $300 - $400 range too early. Because of that, I've had to keep my prices stagnant until I felt the quality matched the price. I feel like the quality of most of my pipes now is better than the current price but I'm very comfortable in this range and prefer folks see my pipes as a great bargain. I also like that they are accessible to more people.

To answer the OP, the only time I get a little irritated is when I see inferior pipes selling at those rates like hotcakes by low information collectors. If a new maker sets his prices high and doesn't sell then who cares. Jokes on him. Mostly I don't really care though. Sometimes I just feel bad for the consumer and I can't help but feel a little embarrassed for the new pipe maker because they usually are completely clueless (as I once was) and think their work is much better than it really is.

Although I'm no pipe carver/maker I do purchase and admire many pipes from different carvers/ makers.
The prices really don't gripe me so much cause I don't have to buy them if I don't choose to.
But, the pipes some sell that get raves by some as to how beautiful and well made they are when in reality
there some of the sorriest looking pieces of briar I've ever seen.(I'm not talking about anyone here)
How can one compete making fine pipes when the public that buys them hasn't an eye for what a pipe
suppose to look like?

I agree with scottie 100%. I feel like my pipes are undervalued, but im having trouble even selling that at the low price because of lack of exposure/recognition. I get a little angry when I see guys sell pipes that aren't as nice as mine for twice the price, but their success will be short lived if the quality doesnt improve before the cat is out of the bag. I know when I do sell a pipe it will be better quality than what they expected, and it is my hope that this is where reputation is built.

Rdpowell im with you. I see a lot of fugly pokers that get love on instagram. I want to ask these people why they are buying a lumpy ruaticated poker with a pre mold stem for $250.

Solomon_pipes wrote:Rdpowell im with you. I see a lot of fugly pokers that get love on instagram. I want to ask these people why they are buying a lumpy ruaticated poker with a pre mold stem for $250.

That is refreshing to know sir, sometimes I feel like I'm the only one with eyes.

Solomon_pipes wrote:Rdpowell im with you. I see a lot of fugly pokers that get love on instagram. I want to ask these people why they are buying a lumpy ruaticated poker with a pre mold stem for $250.

BRAVO!

Some of those $250 pokers sell on the secondary market for well under $200. There's the true value!

I just recently started selling My pipes. My first 10 were sold for $70.00 each and I have raised My price to $80.00. I believe All that bought them know about pipes and realize They are getting a pipe that might lack in aesthetics but smokes well. All feed back has been good. I am not looking to be in a certain price range, I want to reach a high level of craftmanship. I Thought long and hard about pricing pipes and came to the conclusion that I am not taking sales away from the real pipe makers. The People buying My pipes want to be a step above a basket pipe at an affordable price. Am I happy with this price line, I don't know? I do know if I ever reached the level of hundreds of dollars for My pipes I want the quality to be there and the customer to get what He is paying for. I do wish I had the talent to progress a little faster, Norm.

Norm you have me beat. I kept my first 50 pipes.

Solomon_pipes wrote:Norm you have me beat. I kept my first 50 pipes.

Well, I do have a 25 Day rotation on shop pipes, Norm.

Yes.

Pricing is challenging and I think a lot of the newest crowd don't have a firm grasp on the quality to price ratio. I'm still figuring it out myself but it's too often that I see bad work priced in shocking fashion... then selling. Kinda confusing stuff.

I do my best to set the value of my pipes not on what I wish I could sell them for, or what others that are at or below my skill level sell theirs for, but on how much I would be willing to spend on the quality of my own work. I have progressed a lot in the 4 years I've been learning and making pipes. I'm still learning and still seeking perfection. If at any time any of you see me selling a pipe that you feel is inferior and not worth what I have it priced for, I welcome a reality check from anyone willing to speak up. I don't worry about what others are asking. If their craftsmanship it not up to par with their prices, it will catch up to them in the long run. I'm not trying to make a quick buck, I'm in it for the long haul and hope that in ten years I can put out high grade pipes at a fair price, and people will recomend my pipes as an addition to every collectors collection, but also the average pipe smoker is able and willing to spend a little extra on my pipes. Will I ever have pipes that make it into the thousand plus category? I can only hope that my pipes become so desirable, and I will continue working to achieve the skill and craftsmanship of such artisan quality.

I disagree with a notion that seems to intertwine this thread, namely, if you price high and sell and inferior product you will not stay in business. I don't think that plays out. I see and have seen lots of crappy pipe makers charge a lot and stick around. While it's certainly the ethical move to offer fair value, lowering your pipe prices in order to stay in business is not a viable reason, IMO. The key to staying in business is not low prices, but it's just to stick around. I'll offer the caveat that I mean this in the context of the part-timer. A full-timer will likely be forced into part-time status if his price outstrips his quality by too much.

Now, I'm not suggesting you go raise prices, I'm just saying, too-high prices don't usually drive pipe makers out of business.

RDPowell wrote:
That is refreshing to know sir, sometimes I feel like I'm the only one with eyes.

You're not, but to hear the gushing it sometimes feels that way.

I've thought about this a little bit and I agree with Scottie's approach. I also think that from the perspective of a new guy to the market, shows, etc, if I work hard to make nice pipes and price them fairly then the guys charging more than me for less nice pipes are probably helpful. It makes me seem like that much better of a deal. My hope is that if I do quality work, price fairly, and try not to piss too many people off, things will mostly work out.

mredmond wrote:I've thought about this a little bit and I agree with Scottie's approach. I also think that from the perspective of a new guy to the market, shows, etc, if I work hard to make nice pipes and price them fairly then the guys charging more than me for less nice pipes are probably helpful. It makes me seem like that much better of a deal. My hope is that if I do quality work, price fairly, and try not to piss too many people off, things will mostly work out.

The only problem with this philosophy is that there are some out there who will think your work isn't as good JUST BECAUSE IT'S PRICE LOWER. This is primarily the case if you haven't built up a reputation of reliability and quality in your work. It's also especially true if they can't physically see, hold, and inspect your work to see that the quality is exceptional. There's a big risk in purchasing a pipe on the internet from a maker you're not familiar with.