Friendly critique of Deden Durahman's pipe
- Tyler
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Friendly critique of Deden Durahman's pipe
I offered to critique a pipe of Deden Durahman's pipe he posted on Facebook in our PMF group there, but Facebook is so difficult to use for any substantial discourse I have created a thread here so I may effectively communicate. (See original post: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2035723 ... 8313932941) Though I have had little participation in either this or the FB group of late, when I saw Deden's post I was moved to get involved. A key reason I was inspired to comment is because it stands out to me as a very unusual pipe. It is a paradox. So much of the pipe is executed with remarkable skill. Curiously, there are parts that show rather elementary errors. He very clearly has a lot of talent, so I offer my critique in hopes of helping both Deden and all fellow pipe makers. I hope the best for you Deden!
Before I get started, I want to briefly explain why I am offering this critique. When I started this forum 17-ish years ago it was very important to me that it be a place of learning for pipe makers (obviously). To that end a key component was that it be a place for pipe makers to receive honest feedback in order that they may grow. There were then, and now more so, myriad forums to post pipe photos for the receipt of universal glowing praise. Objectively, such effusive praise is unwarranted for most of the pipes. The praise protects the feelings of pipe makers, but its not very helpful if the pipe maker wants to improve his craft. It creates delusion. To be clear, I think the world needs both kinds of place, those that blindly praise and those that are critically honest. Clearly though, there is an extreme imbalance to the former (effusive praise), and we have had to work actively to make this forum a place to find the latter (helpful honesty). That said, the Facebook group which was created to be a gateway to this forum has not participated as fully in the honest critiques as this site has. Hopefully this critique can be my small contribution to begin to improve upon that.
Let's start with the back view of the pipe. I've posted the original photo, a second with the issues in the "lines" circled in blue, and a third with better lines drawn in red. In general the issue here is waviness and a lack of symmetry. Side note, it needn't be symmetrical per se, but in this case symmetry appears to have been the goal and was missed. If the goal actually was asymmetry, it was missed in any aesthetically pleasing sense. Asymmetry is hard to make look good, but it's great when it does.
PLEASE NOTE...MY LINES ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO PERFECT DUE TO MY LIMITED EDITING ABILITIES. THIS REMAINS TRUE OF ALL OF MY EDITS. THEY ARE FAR FROM PERFECT, BUT AFTER A FEW HOURS OF EFFORT THIS IS THE BEST I CAN DO. HOPEFULLY THE INTENT OF MY EDIT IS CLEAR. PLEASE ALSO NOTE, I WISH I"D USED A DIFFERENT COLOR AND WIDER LINE FOR THE PHOTO ABOVE, BUT I"M NOT DOING IT AGAIN.
Now lets look at the top since it is the same profile from the mirrored view. With this I'll simply offer the original photo and a second with my rudimentary attempt at reshaping the pipe. Notice in the original up the edges of both shanks there is a bend back toward the stem at the end of the shank. It is much more severe on the left. Theses should remain straight. For the stem, the edges are drunkenly weaving all over the place. Again, these should be straight. Also, the overhang of the button from the stem is both unsightly, and uncomfortable in the mouth. Last negative comment is the windshield is asymmetrical. The left edge is higher than the right. (I don't draw attention to that in my edited photo because, as you'll see for the next piece, I think it should just go away. Taking it away is a more subjective opinion than the others I offer, but I think it should just go away.) On the good side, your turning skills appear quite good. The bowl is perfect. The tapered flare of the stem is perfect. The execution of the gold inlay looks very well done.
NOTE: I EDITED BOTH THE SHANK AND THE STEM IN THE PHOTO ON THE RIGHT.
Next let's look at the profile view. As before, the bowl is turned very well. Moving to the lines -- think here of the profile of the pipe if held up to a bright light and all you could see is the outline of the shape -- they are again off. On the top of the shank, at the end near the stem it rounds over toward the stem. This should continue straight along the established line until the abrupt end of the shank. As for the bottom line, the arc of the line is quite nice. It is a fluid curve from the top of the bowl through to the shank end. However, there is a sneaky but major issue here. The angle of the mortise -- and therefore the angle of the stem is inserted -- doesn't match this line. It's hard to explain what I mean, but hopefully my rough edit illustrates my point. You can see I erased a lot of the bottom of the pipe along the shank. That was not to thin the shank per se, but to change the general angle of the shank to match the insertion angle of the stem. You'll also notice I cleaned the lines of the stem, thinned it up, and cleaned up the button. I think those changes are self-evident. Lastly, the line of the eye-shaped shank has no harmony with the curve of the shank before I cut away some of the shank, and my changes only made that worse. Showing how to fix that is beyond my photo editing skills, so I'll just have to leave the correction to imagination.
When you view both the original and my edit side-by-side in the above photo I think it's clear that my edit is not necessarily a more attractive pipe. By fixing the alignment of the shank with the stem through thinning the shank, the balance of the pipe is now off. The stem flare is too heavy -- made even more so by the thinned stem -- and the shank is too svelte for the chunky bowl. Honestly, viewed side-by-side, I'll say now regret removing the windshield. I don't love the concept, but by removing it I think I threw off the balance of the bowl height to the overall proportion of the pipe. Thus the difficulty of pipe making! Deden captured a lot of nice chunky proportion, but missed some critical lines. Fixing those lines throws off the proportion. Getting it all right is a hard tug-of-war! There is also the issue of the middle line for the edge of the eye-shank. It is really droopy now that I lifted the bottom line. I wish I had the editing skills to change that. Also a quick note on the thinned stem. I really didn't mean to thin it as much as I did. As I tried to fix the shape of the stem it got a little too thin for the overall design of this pipe. In your mind, take the shape I created and puff the size back up to halfway between Deden's and mine . Also note I fixed the shape of the button.
In conclusion, let me address the typical responses from those new to a critique like this. First, I mean good for Deden not harm or pain. Second, the most common outcry is: SUBECTIVE OPINION! BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER! I will make two comments about that outcry. First -- and least controversially -- what I am pointing out will help you sell more pipes and at a higher price if you make the changes. Second -- controversially and fodder for another thread -- I believe beauty being in the eye of the beholder is balderdash.
Deden, you clearly have a lot of talent. Keep up the good work! Your work is inspiring enough to chase me out of a cave after probably a decade since writing a pipe critique. Carve on!
Before I get started, I want to briefly explain why I am offering this critique. When I started this forum 17-ish years ago it was very important to me that it be a place of learning for pipe makers (obviously). To that end a key component was that it be a place for pipe makers to receive honest feedback in order that they may grow. There were then, and now more so, myriad forums to post pipe photos for the receipt of universal glowing praise. Objectively, such effusive praise is unwarranted for most of the pipes. The praise protects the feelings of pipe makers, but its not very helpful if the pipe maker wants to improve his craft. It creates delusion. To be clear, I think the world needs both kinds of place, those that blindly praise and those that are critically honest. Clearly though, there is an extreme imbalance to the former (effusive praise), and we have had to work actively to make this forum a place to find the latter (helpful honesty). That said, the Facebook group which was created to be a gateway to this forum has not participated as fully in the honest critiques as this site has. Hopefully this critique can be my small contribution to begin to improve upon that.
Let's start with the back view of the pipe. I've posted the original photo, a second with the issues in the "lines" circled in blue, and a third with better lines drawn in red. In general the issue here is waviness and a lack of symmetry. Side note, it needn't be symmetrical per se, but in this case symmetry appears to have been the goal and was missed. If the goal actually was asymmetry, it was missed in any aesthetically pleasing sense. Asymmetry is hard to make look good, but it's great when it does.
PLEASE NOTE...MY LINES ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO PERFECT DUE TO MY LIMITED EDITING ABILITIES. THIS REMAINS TRUE OF ALL OF MY EDITS. THEY ARE FAR FROM PERFECT, BUT AFTER A FEW HOURS OF EFFORT THIS IS THE BEST I CAN DO. HOPEFULLY THE INTENT OF MY EDIT IS CLEAR. PLEASE ALSO NOTE, I WISH I"D USED A DIFFERENT COLOR AND WIDER LINE FOR THE PHOTO ABOVE, BUT I"M NOT DOING IT AGAIN.
Now lets look at the top since it is the same profile from the mirrored view. With this I'll simply offer the original photo and a second with my rudimentary attempt at reshaping the pipe. Notice in the original up the edges of both shanks there is a bend back toward the stem at the end of the shank. It is much more severe on the left. Theses should remain straight. For the stem, the edges are drunkenly weaving all over the place. Again, these should be straight. Also, the overhang of the button from the stem is both unsightly, and uncomfortable in the mouth. Last negative comment is the windshield is asymmetrical. The left edge is higher than the right. (I don't draw attention to that in my edited photo because, as you'll see for the next piece, I think it should just go away. Taking it away is a more subjective opinion than the others I offer, but I think it should just go away.) On the good side, your turning skills appear quite good. The bowl is perfect. The tapered flare of the stem is perfect. The execution of the gold inlay looks very well done.
NOTE: I EDITED BOTH THE SHANK AND THE STEM IN THE PHOTO ON THE RIGHT.
Next let's look at the profile view. As before, the bowl is turned very well. Moving to the lines -- think here of the profile of the pipe if held up to a bright light and all you could see is the outline of the shape -- they are again off. On the top of the shank, at the end near the stem it rounds over toward the stem. This should continue straight along the established line until the abrupt end of the shank. As for the bottom line, the arc of the line is quite nice. It is a fluid curve from the top of the bowl through to the shank end. However, there is a sneaky but major issue here. The angle of the mortise -- and therefore the angle of the stem is inserted -- doesn't match this line. It's hard to explain what I mean, but hopefully my rough edit illustrates my point. You can see I erased a lot of the bottom of the pipe along the shank. That was not to thin the shank per se, but to change the general angle of the shank to match the insertion angle of the stem. You'll also notice I cleaned the lines of the stem, thinned it up, and cleaned up the button. I think those changes are self-evident. Lastly, the line of the eye-shaped shank has no harmony with the curve of the shank before I cut away some of the shank, and my changes only made that worse. Showing how to fix that is beyond my photo editing skills, so I'll just have to leave the correction to imagination.
When you view both the original and my edit side-by-side in the above photo I think it's clear that my edit is not necessarily a more attractive pipe. By fixing the alignment of the shank with the stem through thinning the shank, the balance of the pipe is now off. The stem flare is too heavy -- made even more so by the thinned stem -- and the shank is too svelte for the chunky bowl. Honestly, viewed side-by-side, I'll say now regret removing the windshield. I don't love the concept, but by removing it I think I threw off the balance of the bowl height to the overall proportion of the pipe. Thus the difficulty of pipe making! Deden captured a lot of nice chunky proportion, but missed some critical lines. Fixing those lines throws off the proportion. Getting it all right is a hard tug-of-war! There is also the issue of the middle line for the edge of the eye-shank. It is really droopy now that I lifted the bottom line. I wish I had the editing skills to change that. Also a quick note on the thinned stem. I really didn't mean to thin it as much as I did. As I tried to fix the shape of the stem it got a little too thin for the overall design of this pipe. In your mind, take the shape I created and puff the size back up to halfway between Deden's and mine . Also note I fixed the shape of the button.
In conclusion, let me address the typical responses from those new to a critique like this. First, I mean good for Deden not harm or pain. Second, the most common outcry is: SUBECTIVE OPINION! BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER! I will make two comments about that outcry. First -- and least controversially -- what I am pointing out will help you sell more pipes and at a higher price if you make the changes. Second -- controversially and fodder for another thread -- I believe beauty being in the eye of the beholder is balderdash.
Deden, you clearly have a lot of talent. Keep up the good work! Your work is inspiring enough to chase me out of a cave after probably a decade since writing a pipe critique. Carve on!
Tyler Lane Pipes
http://www.tylerlanepipes.com
http://www.tylerlanepipes.com
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Re: Friendly critique of Deden Durahman's pipe
None of the photos are clickable.
UFOs must be real. There's no other explanation for cats.
- Tyler
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Re: Friendly critique of Deden Durahman's pipe
I fixed it...I think. No wonder participation in this site has declined, that post was INCREDIBLY hard to create. Since I last creating a post like this Instagram has been invented. I forgot about the good old, uphill-in-snow-both-ways days. I used to think nothing of this!
Tyler Lane Pipes
http://www.tylerlanepipes.com
http://www.tylerlanepipes.com
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Re: Friendly critique of Deden Durahman's pipe
This program is extremely easy to use, and costs $2.99
If you're using a Mac it's the only way to go.
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/patina/id942568098
If you're using a Mac it's the only way to go.
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/patina/id942568098
UFOs must be real. There's no other explanation for cats.
- Tyler
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Re: Friendly critique of Deden Durahman's pipe
I meant this forum software was hard to post in. [img] tags with remote hosting, etc. I basically wrote a small webpage as a post.LatakiaLover wrote: ↑Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:29 am This program is extremely easy to use, and costs $2.99
If you're using a Mac it's the only way to go.
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/patina/id942568098
Tyler Lane Pipes
http://www.tylerlanepipes.com
http://www.tylerlanepipes.com
Re: Friendly critique of Deden Durahman's pipe
Whether beauty is in the eye of the beholder or not (and I agree, it's usually fairly objective, with some cultural bias), selling pipes for more money is better than selling pipes for less money, and the people who buy lots of pipes for lots of money are a very educated crowd for the most part. You see the occasional weird turd go for 800 bucks, but it isn't often.
What I learned was that when I made the changes that people like Tyler suggested, the comments on my pipes went from "Oooo, ahhh, you're so amazing." to "Ooo, ahhh, I'd like to buy that pipe."
What I learned was that when I made the changes that people like Tyler suggested, the comments on my pipes went from "Oooo, ahhh, you're so amazing." to "Ooo, ahhh, I'd like to buy that pipe."
ALL YOUR PIPE ARE BELONG TO US!
Re: Friendly critique of Deden Durahman's pipe
This is a tough shape to nail down. It's a great tool for learning how to see the flow in pipe lines. If something is off, it's going to be jarring, almost disturbing..
I think your critique is spot on, Tyler, and I agree that the finish work is stellar. Lots to work with. Keep after it!!
I guess it's because I'm old, but this forum was a whole lot more productive for me than Facebook seems to be... This was a virtual school of pipe making in its prime. And it's all here in the hard to access archives for the motivated. If you want get better faster, it's well worth the investment to do some searching around.
My feeble memory is that the search function worked great in the early days, then it didn't work at all, and then it worked again, but poorly. Hopefully there is a way to make it more accessible... At one point I'd figured out a way to use google pointed here to find things. Might be worth exploring.
I think your critique is spot on, Tyler, and I agree that the finish work is stellar. Lots to work with. Keep after it!!
I guess it's because I'm old, but this forum was a whole lot more productive for me than Facebook seems to be... This was a virtual school of pipe making in its prime. And it's all here in the hard to access archives for the motivated. If you want get better faster, it's well worth the investment to do some searching around.
My feeble memory is that the search function worked great in the early days, then it didn't work at all, and then it worked again, but poorly. Hopefully there is a way to make it more accessible... At one point I'd figured out a way to use google pointed here to find things. Might be worth exploring.
Scott E. Thile
Collector, smoker, and aspiring pipemaker.
http://sethilepipes.com
Sysop: http://pipedia.org
---------------------
Collector, smoker, and aspiring pipemaker.
http://sethilepipes.com
Sysop: http://pipedia.org
---------------------
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Re: Friendly critique of Deden Durahman's pipe
sethile wrote: ↑Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:51 pm
My feeble memory is that the search function worked great in the early days, then it didn't work at all, and then it worked again, but poorly. Hopefully there is a way to make it more accessible... At one point I'd figured out a way to use google pointed here to find things. Might be worth exploring.
Type into Google:
site:pipemakersforum.com "the character string you are searching for"
UFOs must be real. There's no other explanation for cats.
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Re: Friendly critique of Deden Durahman's pipe
Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is the posted pipe is overloaded with stylistic/visual embellishments.
I encourage new carvers to resist the urge to put all their stylistic ideas into a single pipe, but, instead, make a separate pipe for each. One piece of "bling" being the limit. The result will be a less cluttered look.
Another way to put it is to NOT assume "artistic" necessarily means "elaborate" or "fancy".
Also, I completely agree with Tyler's comments that asymmetry only looks right when it's obviously deliberate, and lines shouldn't have kinks or breaks.
Here are some examples that show the effectiveness of simple "bling-less" design + excellent line holding:
https://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/new/ ... _id=271448
https://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/esta ... _id=349067
https://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/new/ ... _id=375524
I encourage new carvers to resist the urge to put all their stylistic ideas into a single pipe, but, instead, make a separate pipe for each. One piece of "bling" being the limit. The result will be a less cluttered look.
Another way to put it is to NOT assume "artistic" necessarily means "elaborate" or "fancy".
Also, I completely agree with Tyler's comments that asymmetry only looks right when it's obviously deliberate, and lines shouldn't have kinks or breaks.
Here are some examples that show the effectiveness of simple "bling-less" design + excellent line holding:
https://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/new/ ... _id=271448
https://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/esta ... _id=349067
https://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/new/ ... _id=375524
UFOs must be real. There's no other explanation for cats.
Re: Friendly critique of Deden Durahman's pipe
A very interesting shape of a smoking pipe. It is not often used by pipe cutters. Tyler you are right, your friendly criticism is very accurate and fair. The author of this tube is really talented, but so far he probably lacks experience. It will come with time. I do not quite agree with criticism the bottom line of this pipe. There is a straight section at the front of the bottom line. It can be seen in part from the top of the bowl to the point where it touches the table. This straight section spoils everything. The bottom line should not be raised, but, on the contrary, should be lowered. Although perhaps you did this, because in the editor it is easier to erase than to draw.
I must say that I made a similar smoking pipe about 3 - 4 weeks ago. Here are a couple of pictures of her.
It is worth noting that Deden's pipe looks more interesting as it is more compact.
I had a specific order for a pipe with a large tobacco chamber. The result is a two-chamber calabash. Tobacco chamber 25 x 44 mm. Smoke chamber 18.5 x 40 mm.
I must say that I made a similar smoking pipe about 3 - 4 weeks ago. Here are a couple of pictures of her.
It is worth noting that Deden's pipe looks more interesting as it is more compact.
I had a specific order for a pipe with a large tobacco chamber. The result is a two-chamber calabash. Tobacco chamber 25 x 44 mm. Smoke chamber 18.5 x 40 mm.
Re: Friendly critique of Deden Durahman's pipe
Nice pipe!
DocAitch
DocAitch
"Hettinger, if you stamp 'hand made' on a dog turd, some one will buy it."
-Charles Hollyday, pipe maker, reluctant mentor, and curmudgeon
" Never show an idiot an unfinished pipe!"- same guy
-Charles Hollyday, pipe maker, reluctant mentor, and curmudgeon
" Never show an idiot an unfinished pipe!"- same guy
Re: Friendly critique of Deden Durahman's pipe
Fully enjoyed your spot on critique, Tyler. I sure did enjoy the days when this forum was more active. It saddens me to see it such a ghost town these days. It sure was fun pushing each other's skills and talents. I keep checking back here for glimmers of hope. Maybe I just need to make pipes and post them up for critique myself.