I'm sure some of you guys have seen the thread on the Knox forum about a potential fill in a Dunhill, but if not here's a link:
http://forums.knoxcigar.net/viewtopic.p ... sc&start=0
I weighed in with my thoughts, having seen some spots in pipes I made that look like the area in question on the Dunhill pipe. Of course, I know that my pipes were not filled.
Anyone else see strange spots in pipes you made that could be misconstrued as fills?
Tyler
Dunhill controversy on Knox board...your thoughts?
Hi Tyler,
I had one just today!
An area on the front in the birdseye that didn't show up until I buffed the pipe to give it a little color before final sanding. When it colored from the buffing, it was a bit darker than the surrounding wood and looked *exactly* like a fill.
It had a few pinpricks on it anyway, so I decided to blast it. Sure enough, this was a very soft spot.
It really did look just like a putty fill.
Rad
I had one just today!
An area on the front in the birdseye that didn't show up until I buffed the pipe to give it a little color before final sanding. When it colored from the buffing, it was a bit darker than the surrounding wood and looked *exactly* like a fill.
It had a few pinpricks on it anyway, so I decided to blast it. Sure enough, this was a very soft spot.
It really did look just like a putty fill.
Rad
Just a couple of personal observations re that entire thread on Knoxcigar:
The first thing that amazes and disgusts me is how this LatakiaLover character begins his "quest" by airing his grievance in public before he even gives Dunhill (or their reps) a chance to examine the evidence and have their say.
Imagine if this pipe had been made by one of you fine pipemakers, and a couple of years later an intrinsic flaw in the material appeared. I'm sure you'd be horrified if the customer started blackening your good name in public before he even bothered to contact you.
I fail to see why so many of those "replyers" to the thread are taking so much glee from the situation. They are already bandying the word "deception" around before any conclusive evidence has been submitted, examined and made public by experts.
It sounds to me as if most of the drooling idiots replying to the thread are just dying to see Dunhill get their "come-uppance" from sheer envy and spite. Talk about a lynch mob, these guys would have had front row seats to the guillotine during the Reign of Terror.
It sounds to me as if this problem is less about the pipe and more about this wanker being heard. His money can buy expensive $1000 pipes, but it obviously can't buy him class!
PS: As I say, "Grouch Happens", but buggers like these really get my goat!
The first thing that amazes and disgusts me is how this LatakiaLover character begins his "quest" by airing his grievance in public before he even gives Dunhill (or their reps) a chance to examine the evidence and have their say.
Imagine if this pipe had been made by one of you fine pipemakers, and a couple of years later an intrinsic flaw in the material appeared. I'm sure you'd be horrified if the customer started blackening your good name in public before he even bothered to contact you.
That has to be the most ridiculous analogy yet! Does he honestly think that Dunhill resides (figuratively) in the London slums? More like a shoddy attempt to cover his arse for throwing out the word "deception".A reasonable analogy is how a policeman, going into a situation that ......
I fail to see why so many of those "replyers" to the thread are taking so much glee from the situation. They are already bandying the word "deception" around before any conclusive evidence has been submitted, examined and made public by experts.
It sounds to me as if most of the drooling idiots replying to the thread are just dying to see Dunhill get their "come-uppance" from sheer envy and spite. Talk about a lynch mob, these guys would have had front row seats to the guillotine during the Reign of Terror.
Am I imagining it, or does this guy have a preconcieved notion about English businessmen? Has he ever been to England and met an Englishman?.....he is a most friendly, helpful, informed, and engaging guy. I expected---subconciously, I suppose---someone more in line with the black tie English butler image, who would take me to task for daring to suggest... etc. etc.
It sounds to me as if this problem is less about the pipe and more about this wanker being heard. His money can buy expensive $1000 pipes, but it obviously can't buy him class!
PS: As I say, "Grouch Happens", but buggers like these really get my goat!
Regards,
Frank.
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Grouch Happens!
People usually get the gods they deserve - Terry Pratchett
Frank.
------------------
Grouch Happens!
People usually get the gods they deserve - Terry Pratchett
Its an interesting topic. I'll be watching it to see what comes of it. The blacklight thing was very interesting. I wonder how a fill would show up in blacklight?
I've seen a few spots that looks like fills in pipes too. Hard to tell I suppose. I understand why the guy has been so public. I'm not sure if i'd have done the same thing, but i do see his point.
I hope the thing works out amicably.
I've seen a few spots that looks like fills in pipes too. Hard to tell I suppose. I understand why the guy has been so public. I'm not sure if i'd have done the same thing, but i do see his point.
I hope the thing works out amicably.
Hi Nick,
Will Purdy had a black light (pen light) at Chicago last year, and he and I went over our shop rejects that we were smoking.
Super glue does not show up at all under black light. Epoxy, however glows like a bright blue neon sign. I don't remember us finding anything that showed up jet black.
Frank,
You should read Neill Roan's (Zulu Collector's) thread about his recent experience in the Dunhill shop in London. It's on Smoker's Forum under the heading, "The Troll Under Alfred Dunhill's Bridge", or something similar.
I think you will see why some people might have a preconceived notion about how the folks at Dunhill might act. Rick Newcombe also recounts a similar experience that happened years ago at that same Dunhill shop in his book, "In Search of Pipe Dreams".
They *do * appear to be a bit snooty.
Rad
Will Purdy had a black light (pen light) at Chicago last year, and he and I went over our shop rejects that we were smoking.
Super glue does not show up at all under black light. Epoxy, however glows like a bright blue neon sign. I don't remember us finding anything that showed up jet black.
Frank,
You should read Neill Roan's (Zulu Collector's) thread about his recent experience in the Dunhill shop in London. It's on Smoker's Forum under the heading, "The Troll Under Alfred Dunhill's Bridge", or something similar.
I think you will see why some people might have a preconceived notion about how the folks at Dunhill might act. Rick Newcombe also recounts a similar experience that happened years ago at that same Dunhill shop in his book, "In Search of Pipe Dreams".
They *do * appear to be a bit snooty.
Rad
The (almost) final resolution to this issue: http://forums.knoxcigar.net/viewtopic.p ... c&start=45
I still think that LL guy is a wanker with nothing better to do with his time & money.
Flame on, Frank, Flame on! LOL.
I still think that LL guy is a wanker with nothing better to do with his time & money.
Flame on, Frank, Flame on! LOL.
Regards,
Frank.
------------------
Grouch Happens!
People usually get the gods they deserve - Terry Pratchett
Frank.
------------------
Grouch Happens!
People usually get the gods they deserve - Terry Pratchett
A friend of mine, some years ago, visited the NY Dunhill shop while on tour as a professional musician. He already had a nice collection of Dunhills at home. He entered the shop dressed in his casual clothes that he wore for his rock group performances (We're talking jeans & sneakers, just normal stuff here, not KISS outfits). He was admiring a pipe in one of the cases and asked the shop guy how much the pipe cost. The shop fellow looked him up and down in his jeans and replied, "To you, sir, it is NOT for sale". True story!RadDavis wrote:They *do * appear to be a bit snooty.
Rad
As for LL and his thread from hell...... Yeah, I think it was in poor taste. I, like nearly every other pipemaker, have encountered instances of weird wood in briar - spots that resemble fills but are simply briar pulpy areas. About the only way to find them during finishing is to firmly brown compound your pipe, because such spots will sink in and become obviously softer than surrounding wood. I note that elsewhere, LL denounces the very practice that would have uncovered this flaw as "bad craftsmanship" - compounding heavily & creating surface ripples. For my part, I always do it - rough sand, compound the hell out of the pipe to quickly remove scratches and spot trouble areas, then fine sand over that to remove the created ridges and ripples.
I think the thing to have done would have been to privately contact the company rep and give them a chance to get to the bottom of the situation, rather than happily smear their name all over a public forum with what now seems to have been a completely fabricated claim - that Dunhills have fills. As usual, it attracted the "pile on" crowd who all like to see a "name" getting smeared. As I said, I just felt it was very poor taste.
Happy Smoking,
Trever Talbert
www.talbertpipes.com
My Pipe Blog:
https://talbertpipes.com/category/pipeblog/
My Lizards & Pipes Web Comic:
https://talbertpipes.com/category/lizards/
Trever Talbert
www.talbertpipes.com
My Pipe Blog:
https://talbertpipes.com/category/pipeblog/
My Lizards & Pipes Web Comic:
https://talbertpipes.com/category/lizards/
It sounds as if the Dunhill shop assistants could really do with an attitude adjustment.
In light of this, I will institute a new policy of not selling to anyone wearing a suit & tie, unless I really need the money. Drat! I'm broke again. The aforementioned policy will have to be suspended until further notice.
In light of this, I will institute a new policy of not selling to anyone wearing a suit & tie, unless I really need the money. Drat! I'm broke again. The aforementioned policy will have to be suspended until further notice.
Hear, hear & amen to that!As for LL and his thread from hell...... Yeah, I think it was in poor taste.
Regards,
Frank.
------------------
Grouch Happens!
People usually get the gods they deserve - Terry Pratchett
Frank.
------------------
Grouch Happens!
People usually get the gods they deserve - Terry Pratchett
Yea, a private channel might have been in better taste. Still part of me thinks that the open air approach taken has shown a light into somthing that, in the end, showed the strength of the company. I'm very glad it ended well.
If it was me, I know I'd have done it all in private. Perhaps I'd have shared it afterwards though. I've had two pipes that had serious burnouts in the first few smokings, and both makers were very prompt in replacing the pipes without any hassel at all. Since then i have confidently and happily bought a few more pipes from these makers and have only high praise for them both.
If it was me, I know I'd have done it all in private. Perhaps I'd have shared it afterwards though. I've had two pipes that had serious burnouts in the first few smokings, and both makers were very prompt in replacing the pipes without any hassel at all. Since then i have confidently and happily bought a few more pipes from these makers and have only high praise for them both.
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farmer_rob
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:23 pm
- Location: Merced CA
The main outcry against this so-called "fill", is that Dunhill openly claim never to fill their brand of pipes. The droolers & knuckle draggers were hoping to prove that Dunhill had filled this pipe. They were wrong, it was just a spot of pulpy wood, not apparent at the time of crafting. The whole incident merely showed a lack of class on behalf of the author & his yappy dog followers (Yep! That incident really got my grouch up).farmer_rob wrote:-- having built furniture for several years (yrs ago) fills are a part of woodworking... period!
Incidently, none of the serious pipemakers on this forum fill pipes that they intend to retail.
Regards,
Frank.
------------------
Grouch Happens!
People usually get the gods they deserve - Terry Pratchett
Frank.
------------------
Grouch Happens!
People usually get the gods they deserve - Terry Pratchett
I realize that I am chiming in a bit late here but I just read the other forums thread and could not figure out. Did the pipe owner find this after smoking the pipe? I read at the end where the Dunhill people refered to a "Burn out". I realize the fellow used really bright lights to photograph the area, but I would think that the problem, if it surfaced after smoking, would lead me to believe that the problem was in the makeup of the wood.
If not than shame on him for not looking a bit closer before accepting delivery on a $1000 pipe.
I appreciate the way Dunhill followed through on the complaint. It would have been very interesting to see what would have been found if it was cut apart. I would have liked to have seen those pictures of Bill Taylor cutting it up
If not than shame on him for not looking a bit closer before accepting delivery on a $1000 pipe.
I appreciate the way Dunhill followed through on the complaint. It would have been very interesting to see what would have been found if it was cut apart. I would have liked to have seen those pictures of Bill Taylor cutting it up
OK, to put this matter to bed once & for all.
The spot was not apparent when the pipe was bought new, because it looked exactly like the rest of the pipe. No one in the entire universe knew that the spot was there, at that time. After a couple of years or so, the owner decided to give the pipe a polishing. It was at that point, whilst removing the old finish, that the spot became apparent due to the briar aging & colouring from smoking.
Any experienced pipemaker will tell you that this is entirely possible & is not intentional. It's an invisible flaw (at the time of crafting), inherent in the briar.
'Nuff said.
The spot was not apparent when the pipe was bought new, because it looked exactly like the rest of the pipe. No one in the entire universe knew that the spot was there, at that time. After a couple of years or so, the owner decided to give the pipe a polishing. It was at that point, whilst removing the old finish, that the spot became apparent due to the briar aging & colouring from smoking.
Any experienced pipemaker will tell you that this is entirely possible & is not intentional. It's an invisible flaw (at the time of crafting), inherent in the briar.
'Nuff said.
Last edited by Frank on Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regards,
Frank.
------------------
Grouch Happens!
People usually get the gods they deserve - Terry Pratchett
Frank.
------------------
Grouch Happens!
People usually get the gods they deserve - Terry Pratchett
There may be a reminder for makers here, especially if Dunhill have given the impression that they are unlikely to be responsive to customer gripes.
The behavior exhibited by the SF OP does happen, probably more often than we'd like to think. Once I was next to a fellow at a show, someone no longer active in the pipe industry but known, generally, as a hell of a nice guy. We hadn't been chatting for more than a few minutes when he pulled out a pipe, and said "I asked John Doe (reasonably well-known maker) to make me a Canadian, and he gives me THIS." He was upset because the pipe was shorter than he thought a Canadian should be, the stem was thicker, more round and less flat, he thought the oxblood finish was too purple, the grain was nodescript, etc. etc. I asked if he'd told the maker he was unhappy, and he said, no, he hadn't. I gathered he had just gotten the pipe, hadn't been able to tell the maker to his face that he hated it, was fuming and just HAD to tell somebody. Probably he was looking for confirmation from another pipemaker that he'd been saddled with a crappy pipe -- I said that the things he objected to were a matter of shape interpretation, and that the maker really should be the first one to hear the complaints.
Granted, it would have been much worse if the irate gentleman had taken the matter to a forum rather than bending my ear about it, but the conversation left an indelible impression. You can't be too careful, and since then I've made it a point to tell every customer that the pipe isn't sold unless he's happy with it, and if he has any problems I want to be the first to hear about it.
Jack
The behavior exhibited by the SF OP does happen, probably more often than we'd like to think. Once I was next to a fellow at a show, someone no longer active in the pipe industry but known, generally, as a hell of a nice guy. We hadn't been chatting for more than a few minutes when he pulled out a pipe, and said "I asked John Doe (reasonably well-known maker) to make me a Canadian, and he gives me THIS." He was upset because the pipe was shorter than he thought a Canadian should be, the stem was thicker, more round and less flat, he thought the oxblood finish was too purple, the grain was nodescript, etc. etc. I asked if he'd told the maker he was unhappy, and he said, no, he hadn't. I gathered he had just gotten the pipe, hadn't been able to tell the maker to his face that he hated it, was fuming and just HAD to tell somebody. Probably he was looking for confirmation from another pipemaker that he'd been saddled with a crappy pipe -- I said that the things he objected to were a matter of shape interpretation, and that the maker really should be the first one to hear the complaints.
Granted, it would have been much worse if the irate gentleman had taken the matter to a forum rather than bending my ear about it, but the conversation left an indelible impression. You can't be too careful, and since then I've made it a point to tell every customer that the pipe isn't sold unless he's happy with it, and if he has any problems I want to be the first to hear about it.
Jack
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LatakiaLover
- Posts: 3124
- Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:29 am
- Location: Kansas City, USA
- Contact:
Hi, all. I just joined this forum. (In the capacity of a repairman, not a carver, though.)
It is interesting to read people's reactions to that Knox thread.
No need to re-open it, but rest assured that there was considerably more going on out of sight than was disclosed in the thread, and my judgement isn't as impaired as some have suggested. I'll leave it at that.
I'm bringing it up at all just to save the bandwidth of the inevitable, "Are you the same guy that...?" questions that would come my way otherwise. The answer is yes I am, and I'd probably do it the same way again, given the circumstances.
For what it's worth, Dunhill USA and I are on the best of terms. It was never otherwise.
It is interesting to read people's reactions to that Knox thread.
No need to re-open it, but rest assured that there was considerably more going on out of sight than was disclosed in the thread, and my judgement isn't as impaired as some have suggested. I'll leave it at that.
I'm bringing it up at all just to save the bandwidth of the inevitable, "Are you the same guy that...?" questions that would come my way otherwise. The answer is yes I am, and I'd probably do it the same way again, given the circumstances.
For what it's worth, Dunhill USA and I are on the best of terms. It was never otherwise.